I was thinking that to maintain FC as a luxury good, DL will have to keep prices up and be willing not to sell a lot of seats. In terms of revenue maximizing, that has a lot to do with perception. Like others said, if people don't know that P fares exist, then the luxury perception will be maintained while adding a bit to the bottom line. Considering that many on FT do not purchase FC tickets, I don't think FT is best-suited to judge the perception of FC. The celebs and other people that buy FC seats are still going to buy FC, even if DL sells a few last-minute P fares. Thus, P fares are not degrading the perception of the product.

That said, I'm all for doing away with P fares, and handing more UG's to elites, but it seems like this would not be in DL's best interest.

:D ^

If your line of reasoning held any promise the people in this forum who find reasons to complain with every trip (and elements: booking, check in, boarding, flight service, luggage delivery), yet still fly Delta four years later should have been long gone.

Worse than the crowd the lacks the intellectual capacity or work ethic to conduct an analysis of the best airline and FF program to meet their needs is the crowd that recognizes Delta is the best they can do yet still comes here regularly to complain. Give some other carriers a thorough try: it will help build perspective.

And I was about to think that there was zero sense of humor left in the Delta forum. Thanks! :cool:

David

Mother, I've turned the cooling unit back on. Mother!, ah you b**** Sorry, just kidding, I could not resist ;)

Hmmmm, the Southwest model, eh? Well Delta did place a rather large order for 737-800s ;)

I'm not seeing those kinds of fares on the routes I fly. What % of flights do you suspect have FCM and What are the real numbers on a typical flight? Plus, you are talking revenue while I'm talking bottom line. It costs the same to fly someone in M as in T so if an M fare is 2x a T fare, then DL is better off selling 1 M fare and flying with an empty seat than selling 2 T fares (same revenue, lower fuel cost), especially if those T fares are bought by elites with free baggage checks.

And reduce seat pitch to 28" a la Spirit.

LOL... you'd want to dispute any number, or approach, that I suggested, and then you'd want to debate the definition of "maximized." :D

But, I'll venture this.

As long as DL management is actually putting elites into complementary UG seats on FCM'd routes, they have haven't found the optimized price for a P fare.

Not enough elites are buying into the coercion and buying P fares to get the FC seat they have come to look forward to. Not enough general flyers are seeing the value of the incremental fare.

Hence, no doubt, the even more blatant marketing of buy-up fares with the web site revision this week.

It must be really frustrating on Virginia Avenue right now. How much lower do they need to reduce the buy-up increment to squeeze out those few extra dollars and maximize the revenue, when folks aren't eagerly embracing the concept? This reminds me of an old joke about a business man and a comely young woman at the hotel bar... but I'll save that for another time.

Even the most myopic DL suit must have some inclination that there is some lower threshold on the buy-up margin where they fail the red-faced test and lose all remaining credibility within the FF community.

Better yet, go to the stand-up "seating" that Ryanair was talking about:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...se-toilet.html

:D


"Would you refer a window stand, or an aisle stand, sir?"

The gas station does not give discounts, but unlike the airlines they do not advertise/proclaim that they give discounts or a free upgrade to higher quality gas at the low quality gas price. What is so hard to understand about that?

I have to disagree here. Delta really does need to maximize their revenue per flight. Obviously this is a balancing act. If FC was cheap enough, it would sell out every time and the product would be cheapened to the level of coach. The F/P fares should be priced such that they capture the maximum amount of revenue possible and don't give premium seats away for less than the market is willing to bear.

However, in MANY cases, this will result in a less-than-full FC cabin at t-5 when the elite upgrades are supposed to kick in. I fully believe that historical data should be used to withhold some number of seats until the gate, as upgrades should go to those who are willing to pay over upgrades.

But what Delta is actually doing is withholding ALL seats on many routes, regardless of the number that are likely to sell. This is also fine, so long as they eliminate the notion that elite upgrades are processed in advance. But assuming they have not found the market-clearing price for FC and have excessive seats available at the upgrade window, they need to honor their own upgrade policy and process at least SOME upgrades, or they need to officially change their upgrade policy.

Gate-only (or 24 hours out) makes plenty of sense to me, and would probably work well for Delta too from a RM perspective. But to tell me I've earned an elite benefit of earlier upgrades, if those do not actually exist (on the routes I fly), is dishonest. Even if it is within their legal right thanks to their catch-all T&C out-clause, it is wrong to treat loyal customers this way.

But by all means, sell the FC fares for as small a markup as is required to monetize the premium product without devaluing it!

Well, I don't know the facts, just don't have the numbers of people who complained/stayed/left, I can only judge by what I see here and learn from my colleagues who fly other airlines. Maybe those who complain yet stay don't really have a choice, or like to complain, or are compensating for lack of something else, whatever their reason might be; I can only guess. Maybe DL is indeed the best option among not so great ones for them. I was referring to the future in my post, and well, you know, "past performance is not a guarantee ..." I would not argue for a second that domestic air travel market is in shambles (if you can get away with VX, that's great, love them, but there isn't any appealing alternative left. It all boils down to a "lesser evil" now, but that's just a reality). I cut back dramatically on my domestic travel on DL this year, and so far took only one international flight on it (mostly do TPAC on Asian carriers now, following advice of people on this board) -- and although Delta's lawn is not dead by any means, it seems to be quite wilted.

So, it's all in your hands: if you can't leave the airline you are flying (or the car you are driving), then love it and enjoy it. Complaining wouldn't get you anything (but I differentiate constructive criticism from futile complaints about inconsequential micro-incidents). Otherwise, try other things and see how you like them.

What has changed for me though: on many occasions in the past, I would give my business to Delta even if I knew that they were not the best on a particular route. I wanted to support them, there really was some sense of loyalty. My daughter would be all excited when she saw a Delta plane and was almost upset if we ended up on a different carrier. A Biscoff after each flight has become a staple for her (it was called a "Delta cookie" in the family). I was thinking that by staying loyal I would earn some tangible perks (I wasn't really thinking, I was staying loyal -- I enjoyed getting on Delta planes, was looking forward to every flight), and I would also give money to a U.S. flag carrier (call me naive). I miss some of those things, but we graduate, mature, and move on. Not getting much in return, my travel $$ are now flowing elsewhere. Not a big deal, Delta seems to be doing great anyway from what I hear, and I am doing great too. Win-win, I guess, and I am sure I can still enjoy some upgrades in the next 2+ years (more?) with my DM benefits. It is surprising though that DL doesn't want to take good $$ from well-paying PAX. I can't be alone ...

As for the bolded part, go figure, that one is hard to understand ...

The gas station might have different prices for self vs full service and cash vs credit payments (where legal). The gas station might even have its own frequent filler program - buy 100 gallons in a 30 day period and get a free ham sandwich.

Ultimately it's up to the customer to decide whether or not to pay the premium for the added service/convenience. Fundamentally, FF programs are no different. If the customer wants the benefits or provided by the FF program then s/he will pay a premium for the product. Otherwise not.

Pretty interesting how it is somewhat clear who one would want to hire/work for/with via the opinions and perceptions of the subject matter within this thread...


y'all have fun with this one... Fonzie just put on his skis...

I am tempted to bite, Mr Hudson, and ask, "who YOU would hire (on this thread), but it is Friday and I am about to pour a Bombay and Noilly Pratt over ice with 4!!! olives.