Newsflash:

Delta charges Kettles for luggage, first class, Economy +, and I'm sure we'll have charges for preferred seating again soon. In this brave new world, kettles are more important to revenue than elites.

Well it will be painful for Delta's bottom line when the only customers they have left are kettles. Kettles with, of course, no brand loyalty that will only book L/U/T (or perhaps P/A) fares, though only if no other airline is selling seats on similar flights for $1 less.

Fixed that for you. :cool:

David

I think the original version was correct.

Or you should at least add the rest of the coach fare buckets (K, Q, H, M, B, and sometimes Y) to the elites Delta wants to run off!

You've never seen the high-def in 3-D version. The competition is so much less than it was in the SSM days...hell, its a lot less than it was 2 years ago. There is nowhere to run. A handful will leave DL for UA, and handful will leave UA for DL, WN will lose a few, US will gain a few...NOTHING will change. Welcome to the new landscape. Get used to it. You can't hurt them. The new message is clear - pay for the service you demand.

Your assessment re. competition is generally accurate, can't argue there (although I cannot subscribe to the conceitedly snotty notion of keeping those who belong in steerage in their place by means of FCM).

There are, of course, other places to run, such as AA (not a bad option at all, even in bankruptcy), or just scaling business travel back altogether. Not all of us absolutely have to travel, and while in the past we would have considered buying high coach fares, now we'll just consider not to fly as much or go with the lowest available. No benefit in buying the flex coach and earning more RDM/MQM. Can't do much with them anyway. I bought maybe one L or K fare last year, most have been high coach or business, so I am used to paying. I don't think that domestic F is adequate though (except for LAX/SFO-JFK), and I also don't think this model would be sustainable for any reasonable time for DL. As any business, it needs to look into the future and grow. It ain't gonna happen if they continue to dump their high(er) paying customers for the sake of the immediate few bucks. I may be wrong; but then again, when I mentioned DL's indiscriminate upgrades last year (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-thoughts.html) as a bad practice, I was under a caca-storm from the proponents of this "fabulous tool that would never go away because DL is making money off it and its loyalty program is the cornerstone of their marketing." Oh, how the mighty have fallen ...

Well, as long as the customers hold the checkbook, we still have the power. The only reason we would have to bend over and take it from the airlines is if we all bend over rather than vote with our wallets.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that there is infinite demand for flights. A flight that is 5% empty may barely break even; 10% empty is surely a loss. Just because there is some travel that is necessary, that doesn't mean that the airlines are guaranteed to make a profit no matter how much they charge or how bad their service is.

Can't agree more! Still too early to tell, we are in the inertia mode and many may still be staying with Delta just because they have been for a long time. Give it a few months and see how it all plays out. DL may be quite surprised in just a handful of months. It will not continue indefinitely -- yes, we still sign that check.

Is that really the case? If DL can sell 1 paid F fare at the expense of 5 elites on T fares (like me) they are probably better off on a net basis even if the other 4 seats go unsold. On the other hand I don't think DL can afford to chase away its higher fare elites.

Your numbers don't work out.

In aggressively FCM'd markets, a P fare may only be 2x to 3x what you paid for your heavily discounted fare, and only $50 or so above the last minute, somewhat discounted coach fare.

The P fare can be discounted off of a full F fare by as much as 60 to 70%.

So to get that extra $50, DL management is undercutting the value perception of FC... saying it's only worth 30 to 40% of what they claim it is worth.

They are creating a situation where the only folks who would ever buy a full F fare are the totally clueless, and those who try to compensate for something else by coming here to FT to brag about how they "always buy F."

:):)

Please explain how your "math" works when nobody would willingly pay the inflated price for F you propose.

Your "argument" is that DL should sell F at a price above which they could actually sell seats in F. Somehow, this is supposed to "protect" some sort of revenue in F. By this "logic" the optimal pricing strategy would be to price F at $1,000,000,000,000,000,000 or more per seat. Please explain how such a pricing strategy would benefit DL.

My point was not about protecting revenue... it was about protecting the product. I am just echoing back the same logic that DL management use in justifying not providing complementary UGs TATL or TPAC... it's to protect the integrity of the product.

They still maintain a $1600 F fare on a route that they flood with $400 P fares. Why maintain the $1600 F fare, other than to retain the ability to hose the last person who really needs a seat on that plane?

The $400 PP fare is a concession that F is not worth $1600. So, why should anyone ever buy an F fare?

One might ask, don't complementary UGs devalue the perception of what F is worth? It's hard to dispute that.

So why not do away with complementary UGs... apart from the obvious revolt that would cause in the FF ranks.

Answer... because not enough people are willing to pay the P fare required to keep FC filled. Yet, DL is holding back 24 of 26 seats on some flights, expecting a last minute sales miracle. Sort of like the old Peanuts cartoons with Charlie Brown on the pitcher's mound, in the pouring rain, begging everyone not to go home because "It might stop raining."

And loyal FFs are losing confidence in the value of SM as a result.

And you say that with a straight face?

Under your "logic", what is the proper price for F? Moreover, what is the revenue maximizing price for F?

Tick, tock...

If they wanted to maximize short term revenue they would refit all planes pure Y and provide nothing for free.