Are there any businesses in this country whose travel policies permit paid F on domestic flights? I doubt it, unless Y is completely sold out. The only business travelers who could buy this ticket would be self-employed business travelers. Non-transcon Domestic F exists for two primary reasons: 1. Connecting flights where an international business class ticket has been purchased (permitted by some corporate travel policies; and 2. Frequent flyer upgrades.

Is the "One way flight" in the picture posted another hint? The price quoted IS one way, read before you incorrectly lace into someone.

+1. I left CO over the sell the u/g to anyone, even offering it to me.... DL has not gone this route yet.....

TH... it is not just that they are changing the game, they are changing the game while continuing to advertise that that the old game is still there. That is what frosts me.

PB... they can change the rules any way they damn well please. But it would be nice if they stopped relieving themselves on the FF community and telling us that it is raining.

How many Maseratis do you buy a year?

Certainly selling domestic F one-way at $700 is not some steep discount that is crowding out upgrades.

The real issue is that loads are way up. That means that any last minute flyers are basically ....ed, and might as well buy F. So DL is holding back seats on this.

And once WN completes the gobble of FL and AA gets bought by US it gets even worse.

Consolidation is good for biz, sucks for us.

I'd like to hear his theories as to why FFers have caused airlines all these business problems the last 20 years...

I'm one of the ones who actually buys these tickets in FC. I search and if the upgrade is within a certain amount, I will just buy it. I own a business and expense back most of my travel, but will by at the lowest 'coach' and then cancel and buy-up if within that margin and make up the difference myself; expensing the former. It is no different if I was flying back when you had to use something to upgrade or where a Platinum at the time of booking. I have been a DM for almost 2 years and have worked to invoke the published benefits on about 4 flights.

Clearly this is working for DL and will not change anytime soon.

I just find it ironic that the same people that complain that FC is not to standard and still complain when they do not get a 'complimentary' upgrade more often than they expect - which is almost always expected with this crowd.

You CANNOT have a product you truly what you are asking for until it is designed around those who actually PAY for it.

Especially in these times, there is rarely something you expect to get THAT IS FOR FREE.

And for those of you who insist that nobody pays for domestic FC - almost all of my 100+ flights on Delta last year and all almost all of my 32 flights on DL (with the exception of 2) in 2012 were either paid or upgraded with SWU at time of booking.

This affects me less than most on here. I go with high fares and have stumbled into P or A fares on 4 trips so far this year. The point is not whether Delta can or can't do it... I think it is more about what it says about its understanding of its core customers in what they are doing. Delta certainly has not come out and sent an email stating that V inventory will now be drastically reduced on many flights and it may affect you... even though you have been loyal in the past and your loyalty was rewarded with FC seats....they have used the "just put the tip in technique" as if their core flyers would not figure out the deal.... and even with that said, I am not so sure how it is making them more money. I used to end up buying F or A seats on last minute flights on plenty of occasions. Now, the P fares are a lot less than those seats. They need to fill 6 P seats to make up for an F ticket. (I'd be glad to show my math) In the mean time, pissing off core customers...

+1

I have made the same point myself on several of these FCM threads. Consolidation means that there is less and less real competition on many routes. In this world, loyalty has no value. I don't like it anymore than the people complaining here but it is what it is.

I wonder how some of you get any work done at all since your time seems to be spent checking your itineraries X days out and then moaning about upgrades not clearing. :D

Personally, I'm glad DL is making F/P/A fares more visible and encouraging people to buy those seats. If the entire upgrade window bs was ended and everything went to gate lotto, that would be ideal IMHO.

BTW, does everyone gloss over this part of the terms-

We limit the seats available for use with complimentary upgrades and may not make seats available on all flights.

One of my staff is a GM and has an unexpected 1500 mile each way day trip with four days notice. He's also 6'7". He's only allowed to get reimbursed for M, but he's absolutely going to buy the "discounted" F fare which is about $150 more RT. Getting some rest each way is worth it to him, and if I was allowed to reimburse him for discounted F, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Yes, DL (along with most legacy carriers) had a strategy targetted primarily at the corporate segment for folks whom could only buy Econo class tickets - but whom were allowed to buy the expensive fully flex ones. You know, the ones that cost more than discounted F.

But now you sit on the upgrade list and watch while people pay a lower fare and buy right into F. Sad.

Any MBA can tell you that the cost of obtaining a new customer is drastically higher than the cost to retain an existing customer. F fares for $50 more than coach may yield short term results, but loyalty is really hard for any company to buy.

Airline pricing in general is a mess. Every article I read about the increased cost of oil and rising airfare cracks me up. The basic principle of pricing should be market based, not cost based. Clearly if the airlines need to raise prices due to higher fuel costs, then the market is fundamentally broken. They can't sustain higher prices on supply/demand alone so they're stuck using cost as a price driver. I would be perfectly happy if market forces really drove prices (even if it meant higher overall prices) because then our loyalty would actually be valuable in the industry.

I would submit that loyalty programs, and loyal customers, are what sustained the airline in some of the hard times.

But, what do I know? I'm just a loyal customer, trying to answer the question "Yeah... but what have you done for me lately?"

The loyalty is less reciprocal when airline management deludes themselves into thinking that permanent good times are just around the corner.