Lowest Delta Fare Class does not earn MQMs? Yes It Does, Says Delta Air Lines
May 17, 2011, 2:18 pm
#211
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Well, the calculation likely being true, a trivial question arises nevertheless: Why then do you offer these money-losing fares?
And the answer is of course equally trivial: Because if you don't, the seat will fly out empty, and you'll lose even more money.
[A less trivial variant: Because if you don't, your potential customer will go to your competitor who does; having done that once, he will, with some probability, stay with that competitor going forward, and once again you'll lose even more money.]
Hence, I don't think it would be fair to say that sLUT customers are nothing but a source of loss for the airline.
(Yes, you guessed it -- I am one of them
)
And the answer is of course equally trivial: Because if you don't, the seat will fly out empty, and you'll lose even more money.
[A less trivial variant: Because if you don't, your potential customer will go to your competitor who does; having done that once, he will, with some probability, stay with that competitor going forward, and once again you'll lose even more money.]
Hence, I don't think it would be fair to say that sLUT customers are nothing but a source of loss for the airline.
(Yes, you guessed it -- I am one of them
)On the same note, Stefan....if you are a Y/B traveler, YOU are more-valuable than I am.
May 17, 2011, 2:52 pm
#212
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: DL FO, UA, AA, AsiaMiles, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 7,982
TOTALLY agree, BUT should that customer be given even MORE perks? I've had years where I maxed the system and got plenty of F upgrades, etc. At the root of it, I knew I didn't deserve it. Now that my spend is significant and I buy a lot of tickets that aren't sLUT fares, I see the difference and honestly think I am entitled to more....I am more valuable to the bottom line.
On the same note, Stefan....if you are a Y/B traveler, YOU are more-valuable than I am.
On the same note, Stefan....if you are a Y/B traveler, YOU are more-valuable than I am.
YBMs already get 50% bonus MQMs and go to the front of the UG line. Maybe toss them an additional bonus, like one free alcoholic drink while in flight (just give them a HOOU upon check-in). And create something for the HQKs, like a free drink or 25% MQM bonus or something like that.
The details aren't crucial, just give something of value to customers on higher fare tickets. It doesn't even have to cost much, even a little perk like a drink will make someone feel valued.
May 17, 2011, 3:18 pm
#213
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 1.929MM, Hilton Lifetime Diamond, IHG Platinum, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (lifetime gold)
Posts: 7,860
I think it's impossible to say if a given ticket or even a given passenger is profitable. The smallest unit you can look at is a flight, and even that is way complicated, and at the end of the day the best you can say is "is the airline profitable?"
For example, if a transcon T fare goes for $99, but the seat otherwise goes empty, is that really a loss? It's incremental revenue on a perishable good. Certainly you can't sell a plane load of $99 fares, but if the market doesn't support the route itself at least breaking even (if you can figure out how to measure that), then the route shouldn't be flown.
Similarly, if exactly one TATL J fare is sold on a flight (we all know how much we complain about Non-Rev parties in J, so this isn't too farfetched, especially on 752s), is that one J passenger profitable? Even if the plane overall is losing money? What if the flight sells out in J on Sundays and Thursdays, but only sells T fares on Fridays -- except for that one J passenger?
For example, if a transcon T fare goes for $99, but the seat otherwise goes empty, is that really a loss? It's incremental revenue on a perishable good. Certainly you can't sell a plane load of $99 fares, but if the market doesn't support the route itself at least breaking even (if you can figure out how to measure that), then the route shouldn't be flown.
Similarly, if exactly one TATL J fare is sold on a flight (we all know how much we complain about Non-Rev parties in J, so this isn't too farfetched, especially on 752s), is that one J passenger profitable? Even if the plane overall is losing money? What if the flight sells out in J on Sundays and Thursdays, but only sells T fares on Fridays -- except for that one J passenger?
Maximize revenue.
The plane costs almost as much to fly empty as when it's full. Try to get some money out of every seat. You can argue that a sLUT flier is profitable when paying for seats that would otherwise go empty. That last little bit of revenue may be enough to tip the flight from a loss to a profit.
David
May 17, 2011, 4:05 pm
#214
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 15,347
While I do believe that these fares will in fact earn miles (the best anyone has against that is a busted website calculator and a Chisholm rep who ahd to make many calls????) and that the system hasn't gone "live" on these fares, part of me believes that if they really do institute a very bargain basement fare for Priceline and the like with no miles earned, that it is NOT a terrible thing (as opposed to just making the T an E, the U a T, the L a U, etc.) it would be an elegant way of thinning the lowest of the SM ranks and as a Priceline flier (for example) could care less what airline they are flying, it really would not hurt anything...........
May 17, 2011, 4:09 pm
#215
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/2MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,649
SkyMilesInsider is currently online, so I am sure we are going to get some clarification soon! (Or at least a promise to look into it and quickly return with an answer)
May 17, 2011, 4:10 pm
#216
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SEA - DL DM/2MM, *A Gold, SPG Lifetime Plat, some other car and hotel stuff
Posts: 5,649
Records do indicate that he was on from 538pm EDT until about a minute ago (609pm EDT).
May 17, 2011, 4:31 pm
#217
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
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May 17, 2011, 4:35 pm
#218
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Maybe he was reading through the thread since its generated some noise at corporate. I'd give a bit more time for an official response/posting/website update about E fares, since Kevin was just made aware of this recently as well.
May 17, 2011, 4:36 pm
#219
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: DL DM; Hertz Gold PC
Posts: 267
Even though I am typically a sLUT flyer, I agree with you. But IMO the solution is not to reduce the MQM earnings of sLUT fares or offer a regularly bookable fare that doesn't earn MQMs. IMO you should earn at least 1 MQM for every BIS mile regardless of fare. The perception of being "cheated" that may arise among sLUT/E flyers isn't worth it as DL found out last time.
YBMs already get 50% bonus MQMs and go to the front of the UG line. Maybe toss them an additional bonus, like one free alcoholic drink while in flight (just give them a HOOU upon check-in). And create something for the HQKs, like a free drink or 25% MQM bonus or something like that.
The details aren't crucial, just give something of value to customers on higher fare tickets. It doesn't even have to cost much, even a little perk like a drink will make someone feel valued.
YBMs already get 50% bonus MQMs and go to the front of the UG line. Maybe toss them an additional bonus, like one free alcoholic drink while in flight (just give them a HOOU upon check-in). And create something for the HQKs, like a free drink or 25% MQM bonus or something like that.
The details aren't crucial, just give something of value to customers on higher fare tickets. It doesn't even have to cost much, even a little perk like a drink will make someone feel valued.
.Didn't we see something similar recently when "broken" DL.com reservation system promised 50% miles bonuses for HQK fares?
May be it's not a bug, but a feature
, which just shows us to the future of SM: 150% on profitable HQK, 100% on LUT, and 0% on lowest E...
May 17, 2011, 4:42 pm
#220
Company Representative - Delta Air Lines
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: SkyMiles
Posts: 351
Thanks for flagging this for us – we have had a number of eyes on this item today. Let’s cut to the chase - these fares do earn frequent flyer miles. We are working to correct the way the mileage is displayed at delta.com. Rest assured, miles will post to your accounts on these fares.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
May 17, 2011, 4:52 pm
#222
Moderator, Delta Skymiles and Mileage Run
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seat 2A
Programs: DL Diamond/MM, Hyatt Diamond, former AS MVPG 75K, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,940
Thanks for flagging this for us – we have had a number of eyes on this item today. Let’s cut to the chase - these fares do earn frequent flyer miles. We are working to correct the way the mileage is displayed at delta.com. Rest assured, miles will post to your accounts on these fares.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
May 17, 2011, 5:01 pm
#223
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: BOS/PVD
Programs: AA-Plat./ UA-Plat.
Posts: 159
May 17, 2011, 5:12 pm
#224
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ATL
Programs: AA GLD Skymiles DM MM, a+ rewards lifetime elite, AS, Marriott plat, PC plat, HH gold
Posts: 1,275
Thanks for flagging this for us – we have had a number of eyes on this item today. Let’s cut to the chase - these fares do earn frequent flyer miles. We are working to correct the way the mileage is displayed at delta.com. Rest assured, miles will post to your accounts on these fares.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
May 17, 2011, 5:28 pm
#225
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Thanks for flagging this for us – we have had a number of eyes on this item today. Let’s cut to the chase - these fares do earn frequent flyer miles. We are working to correct the way the mileage is displayed at delta.com. Rest assured, miles will post to your accounts on these fares.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.
Updates to delta.com will be made shortly, and we are working to communicate this information through our reservations and online help organizations as well.