Delta Air Lines Seeks Premium Status in Asia
Feb 20, 2011, 2:17 pm
#91
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All the complaints about DL's hard product are valid, but most posters complaining about the inferior hard product are seeming to be ignoring one of the main points of the article: the hard product is being upgraded in both cabins to be competitive with international carriers.
Feb 20, 2011, 2:21 pm
#92
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
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Posts: 7,242
You hit on some interesting points.
Indeed, Buick is an aspirational brand in China and Samsonite luggage is a premium product line in many parts of Asia. Similarly, Stella Artois, positioned as a premium beer in the US, is a peasant beer in Belgium ... And no Australian actually drinks Fosters ... Its their joke on Americans.
Against that, DLs j product is so inferior to cx, sq and certain others in the region that any premium fare pax will stick with who is best. Compare the best crown room/sky club in the system to the long bar ar hkg or the "private room" at sin ... You'd think the sky club is the discounted y lounge.
Americans nailed it on the design of the iPod/iPad, got a few en to the moon... but we seem incapable of running a true premium airline!
Indeed, Buick is an aspirational brand in China and Samsonite luggage is a premium product line in many parts of Asia. Similarly, Stella Artois, positioned as a premium beer in the US, is a peasant beer in Belgium ... And no Australian actually drinks Fosters ... Its their joke on Americans.
Against that, DLs j product is so inferior to cx, sq and certain others in the region that any premium fare pax will stick with who is best. Compare the best crown room/sky club in the system to the long bar ar hkg or the "private room" at sin ... You'd think the sky club is the discounted y lounge.
Americans nailed it on the design of the iPod/iPad, got a few en to the moon... but we seem incapable of running a true premium airline!
I'm also amused by the positioning of Budweiser as a "premium" beer in Europe. Then again, I should keep my mouth shut as I don't drink.
I never said that achieving the goal would be easy, but I believe it's doable. I've never been to "the long bar" in HKG or the "private room" in SIN (in fact, I've never even HEARD of either facility), but I've been in both the Silver Kris and Singapore Airlines First Class lounges at SIN as well as the Thai Business and First Class loungers. I've also experienced the Air France Concorde lounge back in the day, as well as the business class offerings of a few European carriers.
I stand by my assertion that I think it's going to be a tough, but achievable climb for Delta - If they are serious and make the necessary infrastructure investments.
First, the BusinessElite product has to be very clearly, distinctly differentiated from coach. Yes, we all know the seats are nice lie-flats. Colors and materials need to be different too. Surprisingly, Delta used to know this. The color scheme of their old international First Class was a rich, deep maroon. I'd recommend that the BusinessElite color scheme go to maroon with wood veneers (and by the way, plasti-wood does not count!)
Next, double the size of the NRT SkyCubs. They are beautiful but, during peak periods, they resemble B10 in ATL at 5:00 p.m. on a Friday (and that's not a compliment). Along with doubling them, offer complimentary table dining service to departing Business Class passengers (i.e., if your bottom is scheduled to be in a Business Class seat, you get the complimentary table service. If you're just a lowly PM on a coach ticket, hoping for an upgrade, no table service for you). For the rest of the crowd, extend the buffet offerings. During "peak" meal times, perhaps have manned serving stations (maybe a sushi chef preparing the sushi or something)?
Continuing, I think the on-board service is already pretty good. Can't think of too many things to tweak there. One thing that Delta needs to offer is a "book the cook" type experience. If I'm confirmed in Business Class more than 24 hours before the flight time, allow me to select what I want to eat before I get on the plane from an extended selection, not just "chicken", "fish", "pasta", or "Michelle's latest butter and salt catastrophe". Speaking of which, I'm sure Michelle has a strong and loyal following, however a "book the cook" experience would allow Delta to feature more than one Celebrity chef.
How about doing some really creative and innovative things with the in-flight entertainment system? For example, allow Business Class passengers (and coach, for that matter) to place their drink and meal orders through the touch screens. Yeah, I know, that'd mean that the screens would have to be deployed on the ground. While at the gate, that shouldn't be a problem. stragglers could order after liftoff.
Like I said, tough, but doable.
Feb 20, 2011, 2:24 pm
#93
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True enough as far as it goes, but whether it's a hotel, airline, or department store, attentive service carries the day in Asia. It strains credulity to think that DL's management or cabin staff have a clue as to how they can compete with TG or CX. Is DL going to buy all their FA's a C-class ticket on SQ so they can see what they are up against?
Feb 20, 2011, 2:27 pm
#94
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What type of requests? There isn't anything I have asked for SQ FAs couldn't provide, including putting together a lighter entree option. Can you provide specific examples?
Feb 20, 2011, 2:30 pm
#95
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True enough as far as it goes, but whether it's a hotel, airline, or department store, attentive service carries the day in Asia. It strains credulity to think that DL's management or cabin staff have a clue as to how they can compete with TG or CX. Is DL going to buy all their FA's a C-class ticket on SQ so they can see what they are up against?
Feb 20, 2011, 2:32 pm
#96
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True enough as far as it goes, but whether it's a hotel, airline, or department store, attentive service carries the day in Asia. It strains credulity to think that DL's management or cabin staff have a clue as to how they can compete with TG or CX. Is DL going to buy all their FA's a C-class ticket on SQ so they can see what they are up against?
Feb 20, 2011, 3:16 pm
#98
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NW was hardly the pinacle of graciousness in the air (the Japanese would snicker about the flying grannies) but they could and did compete on price and had the best FFP of any American airline. It also didn't hurt that their website was available in mutliple languages and they had CTOs in many Asian cities, as well as local marketing execs who knew what their Thai, Japanese, Indonesian, Singaporean, etc. customers wanted. And while were on the subject, NW's information technology was not a relic of the 1980s.
What is the ace up Delta's sleeve? If vapid marketing slogans count for something, DL has no peer.
Last edited by Sabai; Feb 20, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Feb 20, 2011, 3:47 pm
#99
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Sabai- MH?? Have you ever actually flown MH? Not trying to do a "mine is bigger than your thing", but I just counted and I have done over 60 segments in MH in Business AND First over the last decade or so, and for you and others to keep citing them is really quite laughable.
elitetraveler - any regular SQ traveler that has any experience of flying any airline BUT SQ can understand exactly what jim is talking about.perhaps you need to fly them more, or just know what Singapore is about a bit more and then you'll get it.....
elitetraveler - any regular SQ traveler that has any experience of flying any airline BUT SQ can understand exactly what jim is talking about.perhaps you need to fly them more, or just know what Singapore is about a bit more and then you'll get it.....
Feb 20, 2011, 8:06 pm
#100
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Not at all; good for DL if they want to improve the customer experience, but it's delusional for them, or any US carrier, to think that they can compete on the basis of service with SQ, TG, CX, MH, etc.
NW was hardly the pinacle of graciousness in the air (the Japanese would snicker about the flying grannies) but they could and did compete on price and had the best FFP of any American airline. It also didn't hurt that their website was available in mutliple languages and they had CTOs in many Asian cities, as well as local marketing execs who knew what their Thai, Japanese, Indonesian, Singaporean, etc. customers wanted. And while were on the subject, NW's information technology was not a relic of the 1980s.
What is the ace up Delta's sleeve? If vapid marketing slogans count for something, DL has no peer.
NW was hardly the pinacle of graciousness in the air (the Japanese would snicker about the flying grannies) but they could and did compete on price and had the best FFP of any American airline. It also didn't hurt that their website was available in mutliple languages and they had CTOs in many Asian cities, as well as local marketing execs who knew what their Thai, Japanese, Indonesian, Singaporean, etc. customers wanted. And while were on the subject, NW's information technology was not a relic of the 1980s.
What is the ace up Delta's sleeve? If vapid marketing slogans count for something, DL has no peer.
There's something to be said for trying to improve.
Feb 20, 2011, 9:07 pm
#101
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Posts: 622
Ha ha ha ha
man, what a laugh reading the article. I took a flight on Delta earlier this month from ATL-MSP-NRT-BKK(25 hours total with an hour stop in MSP and due to lateness, a sprint through the terminal in NRT). Forget premium experience, this airline is a joke when it comes to basic service. This was not the worst international airline experience I had- (lufthansa's flights to India from Frnakfurt were some pretty bad ones in the 90s. maybe they thought Indians deserved less quality).
Anyway, let's start with the worst part - the FOOD. On a long flight from MSP to NRT, you would think they would have semi decent food. THe old crabby looking female FA asked me whether i wanted chicken or beef. I asked her "well, it depends. What exactly is the chicken entree and the beef entree so i could make a choice". She responds" I have no idea what the food is." So I ask her to let me take a look, the beef looks like mystery meat and I opt for the chicken. THe lady is not even curious to see what I discovered since one would assume somoene else would ask her the same question. Why doesn't Delta just give us a menu on the website of the possible items so we can spare the FAs the trouble of answering a basic question?
Now, here is the kicker. The apple was rotten. The roll of bread they gave was like rubber. THEY COULDNT EVEN DO BREAD RIGHT.
I am guessing the MSP-NRT was an old NW route and I would like to see the NW backers stop. The aircraft was horribly old. Not only did they not have personal monitors, but the center screens were horribly bad in quality(though to be fair, this is not unique to US airlines). They did 2 or 3 FAs who not only spoke Japanese but were Japanese. Most of the passengers on a 75% filled flight were Japanese. Thankfully, despite the gate agent telling me that there were no empty middle seats left for me to choose a row, I found an aisle seat right in front of my assigned one with an empty middle and sat there as I boarded last on purpose.
And I am not surprised by the flying granny comment. Damn, that was the ugliest and oldest internatioanl flight crew I ever had. If you want to compete internationally on a premium basis, get some fricking eye candy at least. Emirates has overrated service(though they got nice food and amenities). But the cold FAs make up for it with some decent looks. As far as Equal Opportunity, I have no problem if they had an older FA be there if she is very good in terms of service. But you do need to have a true diversity of FAs in the crew - the pretty one, the highly efficient one, the stud for the female and some of the male passengers. Sure, but no all flying granny crews please. FWIW, the only other time I took delta was a round trip from ATL-London where the FAs were no models, but better looking and had a better attitude than the former NW grannies I encountered on this MSP-NRT flight. The FAs on the NRT-BKK flight were better looking, younger and asian. But their service while better was kind of robotic.
The breakfast was awful too. The eggs were some mystery omelette. The sausages were edible. the roll of bread was horrible again.
If I did not get such a great deal by redeeming my roundtrip to Thailand with a 2 day stopover in TOkyo on the way back for 60K miles, I would never fly Delta internationally. By the way, I flew BKK to india a couple of days later and whle Thai Air had an unimpressive aircraft with terrible audio and video services, the food and service was easily a class or two above Delta's and that INCLUDES THE DINNER ROLLS.
Anyway, let's start with the worst part - the FOOD. On a long flight from MSP to NRT, you would think they would have semi decent food. THe old crabby looking female FA asked me whether i wanted chicken or beef. I asked her "well, it depends. What exactly is the chicken entree and the beef entree so i could make a choice". She responds" I have no idea what the food is." So I ask her to let me take a look, the beef looks like mystery meat and I opt for the chicken. THe lady is not even curious to see what I discovered since one would assume somoene else would ask her the same question. Why doesn't Delta just give us a menu on the website of the possible items so we can spare the FAs the trouble of answering a basic question?
Now, here is the kicker. The apple was rotten. The roll of bread they gave was like rubber. THEY COULDNT EVEN DO BREAD RIGHT.
I am guessing the MSP-NRT was an old NW route and I would like to see the NW backers stop. The aircraft was horribly old. Not only did they not have personal monitors, but the center screens were horribly bad in quality(though to be fair, this is not unique to US airlines). They did 2 or 3 FAs who not only spoke Japanese but were Japanese. Most of the passengers on a 75% filled flight were Japanese. Thankfully, despite the gate agent telling me that there were no empty middle seats left for me to choose a row, I found an aisle seat right in front of my assigned one with an empty middle and sat there as I boarded last on purpose.
And I am not surprised by the flying granny comment. Damn, that was the ugliest and oldest internatioanl flight crew I ever had. If you want to compete internationally on a premium basis, get some fricking eye candy at least. Emirates has overrated service(though they got nice food and amenities). But the cold FAs make up for it with some decent looks. As far as Equal Opportunity, I have no problem if they had an older FA be there if she is very good in terms of service. But you do need to have a true diversity of FAs in the crew - the pretty one, the highly efficient one, the stud for the female and some of the male passengers. Sure, but no all flying granny crews please. FWIW, the only other time I took delta was a round trip from ATL-London where the FAs were no models, but better looking and had a better attitude than the former NW grannies I encountered on this MSP-NRT flight. The FAs on the NRT-BKK flight were better looking, younger and asian. But their service while better was kind of robotic.
The breakfast was awful too. The eggs were some mystery omelette. The sausages were edible. the roll of bread was horrible again.
If I did not get such a great deal by redeeming my roundtrip to Thailand with a 2 day stopover in TOkyo on the way back for 60K miles, I would never fly Delta internationally. By the way, I flew BKK to india a couple of days later and whle Thai Air had an unimpressive aircraft with terrible audio and video services, the food and service was easily a class or two above Delta's and that INCLUDES THE DINNER ROLLS.
Last edited by saneman; Feb 20, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Feb 21, 2011, 9:16 am
#102
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I get the stereotype. I just haven't seen the supposed breakdowns. Would you care to give an example?
Feb 21, 2011, 9:46 am
#103
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Ever have a broken seat in Biz on a SQ aircraft when the rest of the Biz cabin is full? Evre need to ask any information about tight or short connections due to delays on SQ? Ever order a "non standard" drink? On the ground, ever have a situation where due to a delay, your connection became quite short and they have given away your Biz seat, and would put you in F, if they had the catering, but when you told them you did not care about the catering they insisted in downgrading you to Y instead? Ever ask a SQ stew to expedite your meal? Oh there are many other examples that i could come up with, just give me time.............
Feb 21, 2011, 11:00 am
#104
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Posts: 4,053
If DL is reading this thread (as I hope), there is a lot for them to learn, not just about the Asian operations but all of the intl. operations.
My experiences with DL are largely TATL in Y with a few TPAC and J flights here and there. However, the principles that will make DL successful in Asia are the same that will make them successful everywhere - execute the details, and execute them consistently.
As a primarily Y pax, I am WAY over being asked "chicken or pasta?" by a FA that hasn't taken the effort to find out what he/she is serving.
DL (both PMDL and PMNW) FA's as a group provide service that is genuine and sincere even if it doesn't match SQ or CX. That is a good start and something to build on. But I'll believe that DL is truly committed to change when I start seeing the lavs cleaned even once during a longhaul flight.
My experiences with DL are largely TATL in Y with a few TPAC and J flights here and there. However, the principles that will make DL successful in Asia are the same that will make them successful everywhere - execute the details, and execute them consistently.
Anyway, let's start with the worst part - the FOOD. On a long flight from MSP to NRT, you would think they would have semi decent food. THe old crabby looking female FA asked me whether i wanted chicken or beef. I asked her "well, it depends. What exactly is the chicken entree and the beef entree so i could make a choice". She responds" I have no idea what the food is." So I ask her to let me take a look, the beef looks like mystery meat and I opt for the chicken. THe lady is not even curious to see what I discovered since one would assume somoene else would ask her the same question. Why doesn't Delta just give us a menu on the website of the possible items so we can spare the FAs the trouble of answering a basic question?
DL (both PMDL and PMNW) FA's as a group provide service that is genuine and sincere even if it doesn't match SQ or CX. That is a good start and something to build on. But I'll believe that DL is truly committed to change when I start seeing the lavs cleaned even once during a longhaul flight.
Feb 21, 2011, 11:07 am
#105
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Posts: 9,916
Ever have a broken seat in Biz on a SQ aircraft when the rest of the Biz cabin is full? Evre need to ask any information about tight or short connections due to delays on SQ? Ever order a "non standard" drink? On the ground, ever have a situation where due to a delay, your connection became quite short and they have given away your Biz seat, and would put you in F, if they had the catering, but when you told them you did not care about the catering they insisted in downgrading you to Y instead? Ever ask a SQ stew to expedite your meal? Oh there are many other examples that i could come up with, just give me time.............
That said, not sure what a 'non-standard drink' is? Is it something like a Manhattan where you would have to be a bartender to know?
I've never had a non-functioning seat. What happened on SQ that is different from other airlines?
I have had SQ FAs expedite meals and alter the menu for me, so I haven't had a problem. Are you saying they won't expedite the meal for you?
Whenever I have needed connecting information, it hasn't been a problem. I can't recall any particular tight connection however.