Delta Air Lines Seeks Premium Status in Asia
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Feb 17, 2011, 1:47 pm
#32
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CHI/MSP
Programs: Delta Platinum, United Prem Exec
Posts: 1,334
No one in Asia (except a Southeastern U.S. bound person from Japan) ever heard of Delta before the merger. DL had one flight: ATL-NRT-ATL.
NW was the first airline to go into China after it opened up. It had been flying the overland route into Asia since the 1950s. NW had served markets in Asia for nearly as long as the airline was in existence. When traveling to the U.S. people in Japan preferred JAL first, but second they preferred NWA. Even over ANA or other Asian carriers. NW had city ticket offices in most of the major Asian cities, and significant Asian headquarters in Tokyo (most of which has been dismantled since the merger is my understanding).
They ran the Asia operations almost as an internal airline, and people at NWA headquarters let the Asia operations run the show and guide them on operations, customer service, loyalty programs, and technology issues (remember, NWA.com not only had translated content, which was extensive especially considering how long they had it before other airlines, but they had specific parts of the site with information, promotions/deals, etc. that were only for Asia customers, or customers in a specific country).
Delta threw all of that away with the merger, running as quickly as it could to repaint planes (remember how quickly the 747 was painted, and that flew almost exclusively to/from Asia), fire upper management that had experience in this area, change promotions/drop agreements with former NW vendors and partners in Asia, the list goes on.
And now, the sweet ol' belle from the south wants to be, pardon the pun, but "big in Japan" again? What arrogance.
I'm sure they'll do it the "Delta way" as well, and probably parade Deltalina through Asia while wagging her finger at everyone, saying: "Why didn't y'all stay with Delta? We're so good and we know it, why don't you!"
NW was the first airline to go into China after it opened up. It had been flying the overland route into Asia since the 1950s. NW had served markets in Asia for nearly as long as the airline was in existence. When traveling to the U.S. people in Japan preferred JAL first, but second they preferred NWA. Even over ANA or other Asian carriers. NW had city ticket offices in most of the major Asian cities, and significant Asian headquarters in Tokyo (most of which has been dismantled since the merger is my understanding).
They ran the Asia operations almost as an internal airline, and people at NWA headquarters let the Asia operations run the show and guide them on operations, customer service, loyalty programs, and technology issues (remember, NWA.com not only had translated content, which was extensive especially considering how long they had it before other airlines, but they had specific parts of the site with information, promotions/deals, etc. that were only for Asia customers, or customers in a specific country).
Delta threw all of that away with the merger, running as quickly as it could to repaint planes (remember how quickly the 747 was painted, and that flew almost exclusively to/from Asia), fire upper management that had experience in this area, change promotions/drop agreements with former NW vendors and partners in Asia, the list goes on.
And now, the sweet ol' belle from the south wants to be, pardon the pun, but "big in Japan" again? What arrogance.
I'm sure they'll do it the "Delta way" as well, and probably parade Deltalina through Asia while wagging her finger at everyone, saying: "Why didn't y'all stay with Delta? We're so good and we know it, why don't you!"
Feb 17, 2011, 2:52 pm
#33
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Plat (farewell DL :-<),Hilton Gold, Starwood Gold
Posts: 244
I am beyond skeptical about this. Last year I flew to SIN twice, first on SQ in F on as SM redemption (sigh, oh the good old days) and then on DL in BE.
Of course when I got on the DL plane from ATL-NRT my expectations were not that of SQ F however nothing illustrates the difference more and just how far DL will have to go to catch up as the following:
I was one of the last to board the plane, the FA comes up to me while im still butting my carryon up and havent even had a chance to glimpse the menu and asks me "do you want the chicken for lunch?" I respond how is it prepared? Her response " we reheat it." I still battle the urge to laugh out loud every time I think of this.
Delta you has a LONG way to be considered anything close to premium. In fact the only way I see for them to achieve or offer an Asian standard premium product it is to bring back the awards on SQ hahahah! I suppose there are always the MH awards that one person a year snags. hahahah
Of course when I got on the DL plane from ATL-NRT my expectations were not that of SQ F however nothing illustrates the difference more and just how far DL will have to go to catch up as the following:
I was one of the last to board the plane, the FA comes up to me while im still butting my carryon up and havent even had a chance to glimpse the menu and asks me "do you want the chicken for lunch?" I respond how is it prepared? Her response " we reheat it." I still battle the urge to laugh out loud every time I think of this.
Delta you has a LONG way to be considered anything close to premium. In fact the only way I see for them to achieve or offer an Asian standard premium product it is to bring back the awards on SQ hahahah! I suppose there are always the MH awards that one person a year snags. hahahah
Feb 17, 2011, 3:06 pm
#34
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
Correct. However, in Asia, RC and JW are recognized and acknowledged as premium, luxury brands. I believe some would put RC and Oriental Mandarin on the same tier. Not sure if JW is quite on that tier. I'd say it's pretty close though.
Important note - I am not asian or from asia. My comments are based only on my surface observations when traveling to different parts of asia.
Important note - I am not asian or from asia. My comments are based only on my surface observations when traveling to different parts of asia.
Feb 17, 2011, 3:09 pm
#35
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
I am beyond skeptical about this. Last year I flew to SIN twice, first on SQ in F on as SM redemption (sigh, oh the good old days) and then on DL in BE.
Of course when I got on the DL plane from ATL-NRT my expectations were not that of SQ F however nothing illustrates the difference more and just how far DL will have to go to catch up as the following:
I was one of the last to board the plane, the FA comes up to me while im still butting my carryon up and havent even had a chance to glimpse the menu and asks me "do you want the chicken for lunch?" I respond how is it prepared? Her response " we reheat it." I still battle the urge to laugh out loud every time I think of this.
Delta you has a LONG way to be considered anything close to premium. In fact the only way I see for them to achieve or offer an Asian standard premium product it is to bring back the awards on SQ hahahah! I suppose there are always the MH awards that one person a year snags. hahahah
Of course when I got on the DL plane from ATL-NRT my expectations were not that of SQ F however nothing illustrates the difference more and just how far DL will have to go to catch up as the following:
I was one of the last to board the plane, the FA comes up to me while im still butting my carryon up and havent even had a chance to glimpse the menu and asks me "do you want the chicken for lunch?" I respond how is it prepared? Her response " we reheat it." I still battle the urge to laugh out loud every time I think of this.
Delta you has a LONG way to be considered anything close to premium. In fact the only way I see for them to achieve or offer an Asian standard premium product it is to bring back the awards on SQ hahahah! I suppose there are always the MH awards that one person a year snags. hahahah
By the way, I'm pretty sure we don't get access to MH First Class. For some bizarre reason, Delta has decided that SkyMiles members have no interest in premium class travel
Feb 17, 2011, 3:11 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wayne, PA USA
Programs: DL MM, Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, HHonors Gold
Posts: 7,242
No one in Asia (except a Southeastern U.S. bound person from Japan) ever heard of Delta before the merger. DL had one flight: ATL-NRT-ATL.
NW was the first airline to go into China after it opened up. It had been flying the overland route into Asia since the 1950s. NW had served markets in Asia for nearly as long as the airline was in existence. When traveling to the U.S. people in Japan preferred JAL first, but second they preferred NWA. Even over ANA or other Asian carriers. NW had city ticket offices in most of the major Asian cities, and significant Asian headquarters in Tokyo (most of which has been dismantled since the merger is my understanding).
They ran the Asia operations almost as an internal airline, and people at NWA headquarters let the Asia operations run the show and guide them on operations, customer service, loyalty programs, and technology issues (remember, NWA.com not only had translated content, which was extensive especially considering how long they had it before other airlines, but they had specific parts of the site with information, promotions/deals, etc. that were only for Asia customers, or customers in a specific country).
Delta threw all of that away with the merger, running as quickly as it could to repaint planes (remember how quickly the 747 was painted, and that flew almost exclusively to/from Asia), fire upper management that had experience in this area, change promotions/drop agreements with former NW vendors and partners in Asia, the list goes on.
And now, the sweet ol' belle from the south wants to be, pardon the pun, but "big in Japan" again? What arrogance.
I'm sure they'll do it the "Delta way" as well, and probably parade Deltalina through Asia while wagging her finger at everyone, saying: "Why didn't y'all stay with Delta? We're so good and we know it, why don't you!"
NW was the first airline to go into China after it opened up. It had been flying the overland route into Asia since the 1950s. NW had served markets in Asia for nearly as long as the airline was in existence. When traveling to the U.S. people in Japan preferred JAL first, but second they preferred NWA. Even over ANA or other Asian carriers. NW had city ticket offices in most of the major Asian cities, and significant Asian headquarters in Tokyo (most of which has been dismantled since the merger is my understanding).
They ran the Asia operations almost as an internal airline, and people at NWA headquarters let the Asia operations run the show and guide them on operations, customer service, loyalty programs, and technology issues (remember, NWA.com not only had translated content, which was extensive especially considering how long they had it before other airlines, but they had specific parts of the site with information, promotions/deals, etc. that were only for Asia customers, or customers in a specific country).
Delta threw all of that away with the merger, running as quickly as it could to repaint planes (remember how quickly the 747 was painted, and that flew almost exclusively to/from Asia), fire upper management that had experience in this area, change promotions/drop agreements with former NW vendors and partners in Asia, the list goes on.
And now, the sweet ol' belle from the south wants to be, pardon the pun, but "big in Japan" again? What arrogance.
I'm sure they'll do it the "Delta way" as well, and probably parade Deltalina through Asia while wagging her finger at everyone, saying: "Why didn't y'all stay with Delta? We're so good and we know it, why don't you!"
Feb 17, 2011, 3:48 pm
#37
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 7,409
Delta got a lot more global when they bought Pan Am's transatlantic routes. And NW did not become truly global until they merged with DL.
Such as? Proof?
Feb 17, 2011, 3:51 pm
#38
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 7,409
Facts? So how come load factors, RASM, revenues, etc. in the Pacific has not tanked since the merger??? In fact, the Pacific has been growing considerably in unit revenues over the last year....
Last edited by ClipperDelta; Feb 17, 2011 at 4:33 pm
Feb 17, 2011, 3:58 pm
#39
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
It's hard for me to judge whether those numbers mean anything because of the "over the last year attached to it". How about relative to PMNW over the last 4 or 5 years? AFAIK, pretty much ALL travel has started picking up over the last year. Also, how has capacity changed?
Feb 17, 2011, 4:03 pm
#40
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K (MM), DL, AA, AS, HHonors, SPG, Kimpton, Hyatt, IC PC, Marriott Titanium (LT PLT), Hertz PC
Posts: 7,231
Really? PMNW was not a present force on the West Coast? I thought that there was pretty good service with several flights per day to/from MSP/DTW/MEM from major west coast cities such as LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, PHX, LAS, SJC, SMF, BUR and others. In addition, PMNW ran Europe, Hawaii and Asia routes from several cities, including, but not limited to SEA-AMS, PDX-AMS, SFO-NRT, SFO-HNL, NRT-HNL, PDX-NRT, SEA-NRT, PDX-HNL, SEA-HNL, LAX-NRT, LAX-HNL, etc.
Maybe I'm not aware of what others were doing from the west coast...
Maybe I'm not aware of what others were doing from the west coast...
Feb 17, 2011, 4:03 pm
#41
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; CO; LHLX; NZ; QR; EK; BA
Posts: 7,409
With PanAm 82/83 there was catering by Roger Vergé is FC. The crew did not know how to serve this stuff so he showed upo himself to demonstrate. Things like that made PanAm is some places the airline of excellence. Buying National destroyed them. DL wiped that out immediately and the flights, still existing as DL 82/83, are the usual garbage. OK, but not class.!
unitil the bitter end.
It's hard for me to judge whether those numbers mean anything because of the "over the last year attached to it". How about relative to PMNW over the last 4 or 5 years? AFAIK, pretty much ALL travel has started picking up over the last year. Also, how has capacity changed?
2008 (reported separately for DL and NW but I added them together):
RPMs: 22,236,245
ASMs: 26,104,254
2009: (reported as one entity)
RPMs: 19,606,826
ASMs: 23,997,408
2010: (reported as one entity)
RPMs: 22,311,223
ASMs: 26,177,528
2009 of course is skewed by the worldwide economic downturn which naturally resulted in decreased capacity as well as traffic. So a more 'apples-to-apples' comparison could be between 2008 and 2010. As you can see from the stats above, 2010 capacity and traffic was remarkably similar to 2008, with the same load factors in both years (85.2%). The main difference between those two is that the nature of the network in the Pacific has changed: the 2008 network was more Japan-focused, whereas the 2010 network has more TPAC flights overflying the NRT hub (the new DTW-HKG/ICN/PVG flights as well as SEA-KIX/PEK).
Of course Delta is less well known than Northwest in Japan and the rest of Asia, but if Delta had truly 'scared away' Asian customers because they eradicated the NW brand so quickly, it is certainly not evident in the traffic numbers.
Nope. Pan Am held that honor, restarting flights to PEK in 1981 at the same time as CAAC. Northwest did not go back into China until 1984.
NW was undoubtedly the pioneer US carrier to Japan, but Pan Am (started 1927) was the first one to cross the Pacific, in 1935.
Last edited by thezipper; Feb 17, 2011 at 6:46 pm Reason: mutl posts by op
Feb 17, 2011, 5:57 pm
#42
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 35° 38' 23.2"N 139° 37' 54.87"E Starbucks
Programs: Delta splat ! SPG plat . Hyatt Diamond . UA 1P
Posts: 96
I'd never even seen a Delta Aircraft until they began painting over the NW fleet. Yet, I'd been flying at least monthly between Tokyo and Singapore/KL/BKK/MNL for some years
Feb 17, 2011, 5:58 pm
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Delta skymiles DM + 1MM
Posts: 8,144
From Traffic Reports for the Pacific Region for the combined DL/NW:
2008 (reported separately for DL and NW but I added them together):
RPMs: 22,236,245
ASMs: 26,104,254
2009: (reported as one entity)
RPMs: 19,606,826
ASMs: 23,997,408
2010: (reported as one entity)
RPMs: 22,311,223
ASMs: 26,177,528
2009 of course is skewed by the worldwide economic downturn which naturally resulted in decreased capacity as well as traffic. So a more 'apples-to-apples' comparison could be between 2008 and 2010. As you can see from the stats above, 2010 capacity and traffic was remarkably similar to 2008, with the same load factors in both years (85.2%). The main difference between those two is that the nature of the network in the Pacific has changed: the 2008 network was more Japan-focused, whereas the 2010 network has more TPAC flights overflying the NRT hub (the new DTW-HKG/ICN/PVG flights as well as SEA-KIX/PEK).
Of course Delta is less well known than Northwest in Japan and the rest of Asia, but if Delta had truly 'scared away' Asian customers because they eradicated the NW brand so quickly, it is certainly not evident in the traffic numbers.
2008 (reported separately for DL and NW but I added them together):
RPMs: 22,236,245
ASMs: 26,104,254
2009: (reported as one entity)
RPMs: 19,606,826
ASMs: 23,997,408
2010: (reported as one entity)
RPMs: 22,311,223
ASMs: 26,177,528
2009 of course is skewed by the worldwide economic downturn which naturally resulted in decreased capacity as well as traffic. So a more 'apples-to-apples' comparison could be between 2008 and 2010. As you can see from the stats above, 2010 capacity and traffic was remarkably similar to 2008, with the same load factors in both years (85.2%). The main difference between those two is that the nature of the network in the Pacific has changed: the 2008 network was more Japan-focused, whereas the 2010 network has more TPAC flights overflying the NRT hub (the new DTW-HKG/ICN/PVG flights as well as SEA-KIX/PEK).
Of course Delta is less well known than Northwest in Japan and the rest of Asia, but if Delta had truly 'scared away' Asian customers because they eradicated the NW brand so quickly, it is certainly not evident in the traffic numbers.
Thanks for posting this Clipper. Very informative information. It would seem that DL has its work cut out for them to put some seperation (in a positive way) between 2010's traffic report and 2011.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:00 pm
#44
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 35° 38' 23.2"N 139° 37' 54.87"E Starbucks
Programs: Delta splat ! SPG plat . Hyatt Diamond . UA 1P
Posts: 96
DL flies NRT to Chinese cities. and the growth in passenger numbers between China and Japan is so huge recently that it would swamp any other data.
Feb 17, 2011, 6:14 pm
#45
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: DL DM/MM; UA Premier 1K; AA EXP; ICH Plat Ambassador
Posts: 1,565
I could not hold myself from replying. Delta's planes flying in to Asia are no where close to some Asian airlines like SIA. They retained the crappy planes NW had. E.g., some of their planes flying NRT and AMS-BOM don't even have personal TV in economy. I try flying KLM to DEL instead of flying to BOM on DL. DL does not even provide a toiletry kit. The image of DL in Asia is no where close to "premium" and it will take many years of hard work and investment to get there. TV advertisement is only good when you have a good product. A conned passenger who flies DL on the basis of a sexy advertisement, may never ever fly DL if the experience is not as advertised.
I am beyond skeptical about this. Last year I flew to SIN twice, first on SQ in F on as SM redemption (sigh, oh the good old days) and then on DL in BE.
Of course when I got on the DL plane from ATL-NRT my expectations were not that of SQ F however nothing illustrates the difference more and just how far DL will have to go to catch up as the following:
I was one of the last to board the plane, the FA comes up to me while im still butting my carryon up and havent even had a chance to glimpse the menu and asks me "do you want the chicken for lunch?" I respond how is it prepared? Her response " we reheat it." I still battle the urge to laugh out loud every time I think of this.
Delta you has a LONG way to be considered anything close to premium. In fact the only way I see for them to achieve or offer an Asian standard premium product it is to bring back the awards on SQ hahahah! I suppose there are always the MH awards that one person a year snags. hahahah
Of course when I got on the DL plane from ATL-NRT my expectations were not that of SQ F however nothing illustrates the difference more and just how far DL will have to go to catch up as the following:
I was one of the last to board the plane, the FA comes up to me while im still butting my carryon up and havent even had a chance to glimpse the menu and asks me "do you want the chicken for lunch?" I respond how is it prepared? Her response " we reheat it." I still battle the urge to laugh out loud every time I think of this.
Delta you has a LONG way to be considered anything close to premium. In fact the only way I see for them to achieve or offer an Asian standard premium product it is to bring back the awards on SQ hahahah! I suppose there are always the MH awards that one person a year snags. hahahah
Last edited by thezipper; Feb 17, 2011 at 8:23 pm Reason: mutl posts by op