5khours

Actually 7 days is the cutoff for the upgradeable fares on UA, there is rarely any difference in fares between 13 and 15 days.

As for useful information, is there any way I can fly DL and be pretty certain of getting upgraded without having to pay double for what I pay on UA?

Marylou

Of course not.

You mentioned in another post that you were used to paying in the 1200 to 1700 range for upgradable fares. I'm with hfly in that I don't feel you should be able to upgrade from that price. If every PM and DM were guaranteed upgrades from the lowest coach fares then I fares (which are reasonable in my opinion) and mileage upgrades for the lowly Silvers would be non-existant.

Do you really think BE across the pond is only worth $500 more than the cheapest Y seat? Everyone has their comfort level, both price wise and seat wise. To me, it's worth the extra $1000 - 2000. I've even sprung for an S fare tho it nearly killed me to do it.

PMMMDL

With Delta, I will not buy the M+ fare unless there is Z availability at the time of purchase. I find that there usually is, although I sometimes have to fly through an airport I don't care for (like JFK). The advance upgrade availability is probably better on Delta precisely because they do not allow for upgrades on the cheap fares.

FYI, if I have to fly longhaul coach, I won't fly.

hfly

5k, the difference between 13 and 15 days on UA (or anyother carrier) that I was referring to has nothing to do with upgrade availability per se, but the fare that you pay. The fare you can get 13 days before is generally and most certainly much more expensive than the fare you are getting 15 days out, especially if you are focusing on the lowest available classes, however not generally when dealing with higher Econ fares, I also think you are very aware of it, being a 2MM across the two airlines you are referring to. With copays at UA generally speaking (unless it is a dead empty flight in the middle of the off season) a cash cost generally several hundred dollars higher than DL, take a look back in the threads a few weeks back where I actually tried different dates, destinations, etc, which showed pretty categorically that if you were a sub 14 day purchaser you were mostly better off with Delta, however if you were a months ahead purchaser, you might be better off somewhere else.

In any case your, "would I be 100% certain of always being able to get an upgrade using miles or SWUs on DL." is a totally spurious and ridiculous statement/question for any airline, airlines sell out all the time (who knows, maybe UA never does), have tight inventory, misconnects which lead to all sorts of make goods. Are you sure you travel very often if you can ask a question like that?

Marylou, thanks for the agreement, however I have no problem with an upgradable fare for $1200-1700 if that is what they are charging. WHat I do have is a problem with those who post hyperbole. Last time someone posted that their fares were now $3000+, closer inspection found them to be something like $2500 and the equivalent UA fare to be almost exactly the same.

I do not like fares raising, no one does, but I love seeing examples where people tlk of the good old days when a M fare cost $1500 for example and today it costs $2500, ignoring that also in the old days an L fare cost $500, and today it costs $1100.....

murbahn

I commute back and forth to Brazil from JFK almost every week. Last year, I did almost 300,000 MQMs mostly on business class fares and occasionally in B or M upgrading to business class. This year, Delta''s JFK-GRU B/E fares are much higher and I have yet to successfully use an SWU upgrade. As a DM I have at least 12 of them and find them completely, utterly useless. You can't even give the damn things away for someone else to use.

Its bad enough that you cant use them on discounted coach fares. Now you can't seem to use them at all. That, coupled with Delta's miserly award availability means I'm doing all my travel on AA.

You can't screw with your best customers and expect them to stick with you.

AndyTLe

As has been discussed. If International Upgrades are your priority from your frequent flyer program, Delta SkyMiles is NOT the program for you.

Juanefny

But this has got to change!

And as you know I've been called a loyalist once or twice before

5khours

When I was flying more on DL, it used to irritate me that the only people getting upgrades were those who booked 330 days out. I think the current arrangement where some Z inventory is available to anyone in advance and then they prioritize by status on the day of the flight is a reasonably fair one. UA has the same system and it seems to work OK even with much lower fares.

I agree, I would probably pay an extra $1000-$2000 for RT TPAC on BE (well not for current BE but at least for the flat-beds that DL is rolling out.) However, on UA I can fly C (flat-bed) very consistently for a couple of hundred dollars more than economy. (I averaged about $1200 last year.) The downside is that I very occasionally don't get the UG and end up in an exit row in Y (which is bearable with Ambien). Last year I was 19/20 for UGs on TPAC on UA. So I must be missing something.


My experience has generally been that up to 7 days out, I can almost always get a W fare which is the minimum needed for an SWU upgrade on UA.

It was response to PMMDL who suggested I should be buying M fares on DL instead of W on UA because of the higher probability of an UG on DL. ("It is all about perspectives.... Apparently you think the trade-off of possibly not sitting in J class on a long haul flight occasionally worth the difference between a Delta M fare and a lower priced upgradeable ticket on UA.") Well if it's a higher probability on DL that means 20/20 (100%) since I'm getting 19/20 on UA. If the UG probability is not higher (i.e. less than 100%) why would I pay $2700 for an M on DL when I can pay $1200 for W on UA.


It is not really about fares rising, it's about the fact that SM has been devalued so that the economics for flying DL have gotten much, much worse when other carriers have maintained the value of their FF programs so that it is still possible to fly business class at reasonable prices.

If I am wrong and there is a way to fly DL consistently in RT TPAC business for less than $1200 or $1700 or even $2000, I would love to hear it.... and if not I would be curious why INTL FFs (who are not on the corporate nickel or DL hub prisoners) are still flying DL

Spiff

Agree completely.

murbahn: AA is much better.

5khours

Mod,
This ought to be in the sticky thread.

thepla

OR flying using standard awards is something you would like to do DL is also not the airline for you

PMMMDL

5Khours,

I am 100% flying in BE on M+ and I fares on Delta, but I don't mind paying $3K for the ticket. I have the option as an AA EXP to fly on a cheap ticket and trust to luck that the upgrade will come through (as the Biz upgrades were never available at time of booking on AA), but I will not take that risk (as flying longhaul in coach I find physically painful). I had 4 or 6 SWUs on AA expire last year, and the others I gave away.

CO could be a better program, except that the CO hubs are a 2+ hour ERJ flight away for me. I have flown them in the past and found the product OK, but upgrades are supposedly ever harder to get than at DL.

I flew UA in discounted J (still a few $K) on a 777 and found out why it was so discounted. Upgraded the second of the longhaul legs to F for ~$600 cash at check-in and was not impressed.

5khours

So to confirm you get upgraded 100% of the time and are not buying any Z fares on DL? How long in advance do you need to book in order to be able to get the UGs? I agree that coach is painful.... I just have a hard time justifying the extra $15 to $20k a year to avoid the upgrade lottery especially since I failed on the upgrade only once in the last year.

I agree the old J on the 777s is nothing to write home about. New UA J (flat-bed) is one of the best business class seats in the air. Beats the old WBC seats by a mile. I wish DL was rolling out their new flat-bed product a lot faster.

Winkjd

Sept 2009 I flew ATL-CDG on AF(DL) and asked DL GA if upgrades were available. She politely told me AF rarely honors DL elite status...they didn't. On the return in T on DL, I didn't even bother asking...as I boarded, out popped seat 1C! My lucky day! As an aside, due to the short turn around (<1 hour), DL had a rep in a van meet the 6 or so of us on the inbound flight from ATH and hustle us through all the red tape and security at CDG - just keep smiling at the nice officers she said - it was amazing and we would not have made it otherwise. I knew from FT that less than an hour in CDG to connect is tough, even when on the same airline, so was grateful DL went the extra mile!

PMMMDL

You cannot buy Z fares on DL. You buy the M+ and use an SWU or miles to immediately upgrade into the Z bucket. I do not buy M+ without Z availability to upgrade into at the time of purchase. I will not "waitlist" for an upgrade. I purchase anywhere from a few days and a few months before departure. If I have a few months, I will normally get an I fare if available.

If you feel that the price difference is worth the risk for you, then that is your option. I will cancel my travel before I will fly again in coach on a longhaul flight, regardless of carrier.


The UA old J is crap, a ton worse than the old Delta BizE. The old UA F is pretty crappy too. I haven't bothered to fly UA since on longhaul.