LAXHOUND

I really don't get the complacency on this board regarding this topic. No offense, but maybe its just b/c I'm a young DM who has 30 years of flying left and an idealist but I gotta think Delta at some point is going to have to be competitive especially after the UA/CO merger. I wish more people on this board were fired up about this topic that way maybe we could make some progress. Between SWUs and award calendar Delta is bar none the WORST in Class when it comes to International travel.

DeltaFirst

I agree, Delta should give us the additional option of being able to upgrade with miles and money for fare class less than M. I am also qualified Diamond through 2012 and have also been moving business to *A specfically CO. I've paid $ and miles to upgrade on CO. I don't think they should give it away for free either. I enjoy flying Delta because I think they provide a better product than CO but I appreciate the ability to stretch out and sleep on the long haul flights so I'll continue to use CO where the scheduling and routing better suits my needs.

5khours

Does anyone actually believe that DL is going to fix this? Of course not. If you are an international FF whose company does not pay for C and who does not live in a DL captive hub there is absolutely no reason why should be flying on DL.

emg2919

I agree with the OP 100% and will be moving my business to UA as well.

PM soon to be DM. (10k mqms)

zsmith2

Mods can we consolodate all the Intl upgrade threads? It seems that this issue keeps popping up in a new thread a day.

FlytheTail

DL has chosen to allow plenty of non-revs to fly in BE rather than open up seats for upgrades for their top-tier elites using PMUs. I don't think DL will change their PMU rules in the near future... but of course, hope I am wrong.

Now that I've secured Diamond for 2011 and Gold for 2012, I'm looking at a status match on UA or CO for international travel later this summer to see if the grass is indeed greener on the other side.

orlandodlplat

You say you flew in "Y" but you didn't say what fare class you booked.

I thought the DM program was supposed to allow "Z" upgrades at the gate, based on a YBM purchase. Has anyone experienced this?

pbarnette

It depends upon what you mean by competitive. Despite what some want to think, the SWU process with DL actually does work well for some. I just upgraded a flight for this week, where the M fare was within $100 of the cheapest available fare, and that cheapest available fare was on DL. I have encountered this same situation at least 4 times over the past 12 months, all for personal travel. For those that book some tickets last minute, DL's upgrade policies aren't as big of a hurdle, and I find the upgrade availability on DL to be good to excellent for the routes I fly.

As for complacency, this isn't some sort of Civil Rights issue, it is a business transaction. When I consider the entire value chain, DL serves my needs exceedingly well. I earn more miles, more quickly, with better schedules, and for less money than I could with any other carrier, and I find the combination of upgrade availability and pricing a fair trade-off. Just because folks have taken an honest look at their personal situation and determined that DL works better for them does not make them complacent.

Would I like some more flexible SWUs? Yes. But, I am not willing to sacrifice the significant amount of time it would take to fly with those carriers that offer a "better" SWU.

Crazyhotelguy

Based upon reading the OP's post, it seems pretty clear that they did not purchase YBM. The suggestion is to make upgrades available on lower fares. I. Agree with this proposal.

thepla

Maybe DL has a different experience for M fares starting in Europe. It is clearly documented here that flying to Europe M fares are two or three times higher than lowest fare.

In NW days Y/B fares were the required fares for upgrading. Off season these fares were in the $1100 range. From what I am reading here the fares needed for M fares in off season are in the $2500 range.

pmaddock

Indeed - the current system just doesn't work for me in a very important way - it degrades what I bring back to my family. There comes a time - once every couple of years or so - when you want to do something special for your family but its all out of your pocket and you want to actually show the family that all this darn travel brings something back. Ideally I'd prefer to fly the family on miles and then buy my own ticket for the MQM and upgrade it. When I was with CO and then NW that's exactly what I did. DL's policy makes this strategy impractical. The fare for M is such a premium that it drives flying myself on miles as well. The interesting part here is that DL could have some of my $$ but instead they are driving me towards a total mileage redemption. It surprises me that DL's beancounters want to drive that behavior.

Its sad because if DL just thought out of their beancounter box just a little there are probably some reasonable compromises out there. Possibilities include:
1. Lowering the fare class cut to something more reasonable like K - maybe require some sort of mileage redemption to use the SWU cert from K or more miles for a mileage upgrade.
2. Restore the NWA perkchoice (one way miles/one way $$) so long at the paid half is treated like a rev ticket the way NW did (paid half earns MQM, can be upgraded with miles based on fare class or EUA if domestic, etc.).
3. Limit number of uses of SWUs at lower fare classes - e.g. one trip a year.

james318

They'd lower it to K and then triple the average $$ amount of the K fares.

Crazyhotelguy

Sad but probably true...

Big_Dutch

maybe that's an indication that its an issue?

dean1121

Ditto everything from the OP. I too am DM (260,000 MQM YTD), and have 4 more TPAC and 2 TATL this year and will be doing all on *A. Some more reasons are

1. Rollover gives a flyer like me absolutely no incentive to stay with DL.
2. Why stay when any upgrades are such a hassle and rip off.
3. With potential CO/UA merger hopefully there will be a strong competitor that goes after 300K flyers like myself.
4. I have status match to CO plat and will make sure I stay there by traveling on *A this year so I have options next year.

Delta, I prefer your product but in this current situation you are forcing me to spend 20-30K with your opposition. These are the facts.

Great original post, hopefully it will be read by some people that can make a decision.