MSPeconomist

This would really give some FFs a huge incentive to reach higher status levels.

andrewpartyman

It's a great idea (more upgradeable fares with higher status) but then Delta would need to stop handing out status to everyone. No more gifting of FO and GM, and do away with roll over. Then real Diamonds would stand a pretty decent chance of upgrades and it wouldn't diminish anything.

In terms of what airline always upgrades people, from the 9 or so Lufthansa flights I have been on, I'd say Lufthansa. I don't know their official policy, but whenever we've pushed back with empty seats in Business, they moved elites up from the back and filled up Business. Not sure if that's just a coincidence, or actual policy.

Deadtail

This is why I prefer Delta. I don't use AVOD and rarely eat airline food. I'm here for a ride and rest. Delta's FA's do a great job of trying to make things comfortable and quiet if they know you're trying to sleep. I've heard on a number of occasions Delta FA's politely asking passengers if they could turn off their reading light for them when they notice they are watching movies and not reading, and they seem to actively try and keep things quiet during meal service on an overnight flight when I'm just trying to get some sleep.

I don't dislike United, I've flown them for years. I just like Deltas touch a bit more.......and I love connecting through DTW.

rylan

While it would be great to have something like that where elites are open to using lower fare buckets for upgrades, I just don't see DL doing that any time soon or ever... unless they throw DM's a bone and let us upgrade from H or give some a couple 'special' SWUs that are usable from H.

MSPeconomist

I wish the quiet environment were universally true on DL long haul
flights. Twice recently in TPAC BE, FAs talking loudly have disturbed me for long periods when I wanted to sleep. In the first case, saying something about it to one of the guilty parties and then the purser had no effect. In the second case, I didn't want to seem difficult so I refrained from complaining but I was annoyed.

Often1

This is what inventory management does, except that it doesn't deal with status (which is irrelevant to the issue at hand). DL would prefer to sell all its BE seats at full price, but it can't. So, it sells some at a discount and makes them less flexible. But, there is a price breakpoint at which the brand is damaged and DL loses the full fare BE pax who won't pay the full fare if they can get the same thing or close to it for less.

I am certain that DL pays marketing people good money to research this and while it's a bit of an art, there is a lot of science too.

It's a given that everybody wants the best seat/service for the least money. But, DL (and others) are not about to make it easier or cheaper.

OPUPS are a different animal. They have nothing to do with a marketing strategy. It is simply easier and a whole lot cheaper fill all seats on an aircraft before paying either IDB or VDB comp.

5khours

I'm hoping eventually they will 1) get rid of J. Robertson and get a decent FF program, 2) finish upgrading their international flights with lie flats, and 2) start communicating honestly with their customers. They have a decent network, and I'd love to go back if they fixed the problems. As it is, I have a hard time understanding why VFIF other than a hub or route captive would fly them.

sbjnyc

We redeem over 250 billion skymiles a year. It's a good idea but Delta would probably need to take billions of miles off the books (delta values them a lot cheaper than we do) and make the upgrade fees stiffer before they'd consider it (or so I would guess).

avidflyer

^^^

meh130

Back in November I was looking at a ticket to Palau (ROR) via NRT from ATL. Just by chance, I checked M-fares, and the M-fare was only about $800 more than the lowest economy fare (~$3,000 vs $2,200). Since I still had yet to claim my 2011 Platinum Choice Benefits, I bought a one-month Expertflyer account and check Z-fare availability. Z-fare was available on ATL-NRT, NRT-ROR, and ROR-NRT. I went online and chose SWUs as my 2011 Choice Benefits, and called DL and bought the ticket. I was put on the Z-Waitlist for the NRT-ATL leg, and confirmed the requirements around the airport standby option.

To my surprise yesterday I got an updated itinerary from DL. My upgrade confirmed for the NRT-ATL leg. Automatically with no input on my part.

I am looking forward to getting a good night's sleep on my overnight return from NRT.

My guess is what happened is another Z-fare changed their ticket off of this flight, and I was next in line, and was simply bumped up. Expertflyer showed no increase in Z-fare availability on the flight.

rylan

There was probably a waitlist of people, and when Z became available it was allocated to the waitlist so never actually appeared as available if you did a search. Thats somewhat common on the flights with more people waitlisting, especially ATL-NRT.

Enjoy the flat beds

5khours

It reminds me of Moneyball. Jeff R and co. are like the old scouts sitting around the table. They don't have a clue. Their thinking is totally wrong for two reasons.

1) DL/NW has traditionally made so much money on the premium TPAC fares, they are scared to death of buy-downs. Fact of the matter is that nearly all the premium TPAC fares are bought on the corporate nickel and no-one (I repeat no-one) is going to use their miles or their SWUs to save their company money. If the company allows business class, employees will fly it...period. They are going to save the miles and SWUs for personal/family trips.

2) DL is exclusively focused on maximizing profit per flight because they assume all travel is non-discretionary. Wrong. They should be focused on maximizing profit per customer. A lot of both personal and business travel is discretionary. People just won't fly if it's too expensive or too uncomfortable. Case in point, when DL gutted their FF program, I cut my air travel by 60% and only flew on the cheapest fares. After switching over to UA (who has a much better FF program), I now fly 4 times as much as I did my last year on DL and pay 30 to 40% more per mile.

DLPhoenix

Why kill the messenger?

Well, I am with you, my wife is now burning my last SkyPesos, but aparently you are referring to a much smaller group. You need to add several qualifiers:

As it is, I have a hard time understanding why VFIF

• Who is not using OPM to fly J
• Who puts a high value on international upgrades
• Who bothers to read the rules of his FF program
• Who does purchase M+ for other resons.

other than a hub or route captive would fly them

In other words - This amounts to AvidFlyer , you, me and a few others (mainly PMNW elites) who already left the forum.

Happy Travels
DLP

5khours

I think he's the Head KoolAid Chef.


OPM - But why DL when UA has a lot more lie flat, GS, the ability to UG into F, and the ability to actually use your miles at reasonable rates for personal travel.
Putting a high value of Int'l UGs - I.e. the subset of the flying population consisting of all sentient beings on Planet Earth.
Knowing the Rules - Yep. I guess this explains the doltish expressions predominating SC and front cabins of DL.
M+ - I could never figure who bought these? Probably people working for companies competing for the Corporate Darwin Award.

Apologies in advance to those offended and condolences to you Hub/Route Captives (Les Damnes de la Ciel).

HongKonger

We should change the name of this sticky to include something about info for using SWUs. There are at least 2 threads a day about someone with SWU problems/questions.