ky_soldier

To the first point, leaving seats empty makes bad business sense. Just like throwing away food. Give it to a food kitchen, or in this case, do SOMETHING constructive with it. Otherwise it is a wasted resource. Rewarding employees or customers for their loyalty helps to keep both happy, which is worth something.

To the second point, I know you may not mean it, but it comes across as snooty to say - if you want the big seats, pay for it. There aren't enough people doing that, esp during tougher economic times. Many of us pay big bucks for seats on little planes and don't mind the airline returning the favor when they are available. It would be like me saying, if you want want a bunch of empty seats around you, charter a plane.

AndyTLe

The bar that I go to will serve me well liquor unless I specify, and pay for, premium liquor. If the bar always served me premium at well price, I would NEVER specify premium. Now since I go there a lot, every once in awhile, for my loyalty, I get served premium liquor for the well price (SWUs, upgrades via miles).

AdamATL

Actually, it makes perfect sense. They qualify for J (through their employee benefits) and you don't (per Skymiles Rules). There is no secret about this.... It is well documented. If you don't like it, got to an airlines that never flies a J seat with a FF in the back. I hold no grudge toward these employees. They earn their benefits just like you do.

Vuelos

Unlike most of these el-cheapo FlyerTalkers you pay for J and thus set expectations as such

Vuelos

It's easier to single out the wrong targets than the right one.

In this case the right target, given all of the medallion givebacks, would be a SWU that would work on all fares or a K+

The wrong is Non-revenue travelers. As NWA/Deltaflygirl explained, they board last. If a non-rev is in J then there was an empty seat on the plane.

avidflyer

Ok so you are 12 years old AND you have absolulty no reading comprehension...

I said I do NOT BELIEVE J SHOULD BE GIVEN AWAY.

I am a Delta customer not a NW customer and have been for several years. What I said was NW had a unique way of dealing with this that both preserved the integrity of the product but also allowed for an occasional upgrade for its highest level elites.

By the way, I am probably one of the biggest defenders of non revs on this board. You ought to understand what you are talking about before you type.

dilbertsdaddy

Frustrated.....

Can get exactly what I want in coach for $1024

Can get exactly what I want in BE for $4700

Can get different itinerary (through CDG instead of AMS) that I don't want and use SWU for $4500!

M is showing more expensive than B?

Only flights through CDG have SWU available but the fare is higher

Every single flight is empty in BE 7 weeks out

Two different agents, two different stories

Looks like I might go coach, DL will lose $2K in upgrade to M, and flight will go out with empty BE

Tried to do BE on the way over without upgrade and cheapy coach with EC on the way back....agent said this can't be done. This is not true.

Spiff

Fly AA or UA - trade for upgrade instruments and deny DL any revenue for their stupid international upgrade policies.

5khours

With due respect, I think the issue is that the airlines need to price discriminate in order to maximize revenue and profit (and thus compete and stay in business). One of the ways, they do this is to set high list prices (way over cost) for J class, which many businesses and a few individuals are willing to pay. They fill the rest of the seats by offering discounts and upgrades to other customers who are more price sensitive. The bulk of list price paying customers are corporations who set their travel policies back when the price differential between business class and economy was much smaller.

To be honest, I would much rather pay a higher but reasonable price for business class than have to jump through the hoops of advanced purchase and upgrades, but as long as companies are willing to blindly pay $8k or $10k for J (TPAC), this won't happen.

Also, the UGs are not free. SWUs and miles are a form of discount offered by the airlines to their passengers. No different in essence than if they were offering a cash rebate. Upgraders are not paying as much as you, but they are not getting the upgrades for free.

Just out of curiosity are you paying for J or is your company paying for it.

dilbertsdaddy

Update - 3rd times a charm, finally got an agent with a clue. However, it took over an hour!

Got exactly what I wanted on the way, and something tolerable on the way home. SWU both ways, but fare was $700 more than I was shooting for. So in the end the SWU's saved about $1000 vs. regular business.

Oh, and they charged me the $25 ticketing fee even though I am PM.

Even though I'm all set, it should not have taken 3 calls and still not convinced I got the best fare.

Sabai

It should not have taken 3 calls + $25.

Why should you have to pay to use a "free" upgrade instrument?

MSPeconomist

A PM should never pay a phone ticketing fee.

dancudds

I'm on SFO - NRT this Friday 20th. Already booked in PE but delta.com currently only shows 12 of the 36 BE seats taken.
Am I correct in thinking that unless delta sells these for the $7k asking price they will fly empty?

captaink

Unless Y is oversold...

UncleDude

Using Peso Miles for UpGrades is probably the only reasonable good value use for them.