GUWonder

There aren't even several majors in the US.

My thoughts as an elite member of numerous airlines for well more than a decade inside and outside of the US is that Delta's program is "best in class" for airline management even as DL's program is the worst in class of the US majors for most flying customers interested in award tickets using miles earned primarily from flight activity.

thepla

What a joke... WHY WHY WHY.

ORD-SJO $323 roundtrip 60,000 miles coach and no BC.

1/2 cent per mile. Once again why would anyone fly airline and get no award benefit? I don't care if you live in ATL and fly to SLC for a living, this is crazy.

stephem

Are you really comparing US to DL? US has an even worse international product than DL (although not a bad FF program for international redemptions) and is one step away from a domestic-only LCC. Your unsupported claim that "now domestic routes are more profitable" is silly. What did DL buy NW to absorb its Asia routes to lose money? Did DL offer over $1billion to JAL because it wants a piece of some lower profitability foreign operations? Go read any current article on the economics of air travel and you'll see that other than someone like a SW (or US?) who wants to be a domestic carrier, these foreign routes are lucrative and what are driving profits at the large carriers, in particular lucrative corporate business class travel. Next you'll be telling us that DL is going to divest all of its international routes...

My point here is that DL really needs to make sure it is attractive to high yield business class flyers, as you and your fellow domestic flyers are not enough to keep this airline profitable. Moreover, I dont think I have to wait until "enough people shift their business to alternative airlines." As much as you'd like us to go away, this is "our" airline as much as it is yours and we international flyers will continue to let DL feel the pressure.

mnredfox

Very good point. I forgot about how much they trumped it as going to be so much better. My, how much better things have gotten indeed!

mooper

Silly. It is worth something different to each person, as it depends upon your use, need, skill, etc. I never redeem for under 1.5 CPM, and I try to achieve 2+ CPM. I typically redeem for trips that I'd otherwise need to purchase, meaning I'm actually saving the amount in question. Given that the "pay with miles" option allows them to be redeemed at 1 CPM for almost any ticket, I don't think it's rational for *anyone* to go under that price floor.

Here is a case in point. Who in their right mind would redeem DL miles for around .5 CPM?! On the other hand, let's say I wanted to go IAD>ATL>IAD this Mon-Tue for business. I have a wide open selection of flights for 25K DL miles in coach, but I'd have to pay almost $500 to buy the same ticket. Almost 2 CPM there... would make sense for me, maybe not for everyone. Instead, maybe I need to fly an important client from MSP>DEN>MSP in first class for a presentation on the same days. I could pony up around $1,500, or I could redeem 45K miles for a 3+ CPM value. That's the type of redemption I love to take advantage of.

Whatever you want to call US, CO, UA, AA, DL - I've tried all extensively (except CO) as an elite and I favor DL heavily for domestic use. Others are free to differ - I'm simply expressing that it was an easy call for me.

Business moves and articles like the ones you cite were common in 2007-2008. In the most recent year, there has been an increase in domestic focus because of the global recession and some backtracking in the international expansion. The example of US dumping some of its previously awarded routes to focus on domestic hub travel, which they have said is because of better profitability, is perfectly legit because they compete with DL on many routes. I'm not saying US is a superb carrier - that would be a different topic.

Most of my purchases redemptions are for first class business travel (albeit almost exclusively domestic), and many other business owners (including a few of my friends) are similar. Maybe I'm unique in that I find DL the best for this purpose, both the elite program and award program, but I suspect not. I'm not suggesting at all that I want (nor have a right to demand) that others go away. I am suggesting that Delta has the right to focus where they want, and if international award travel isn't the area they choose right now, then customers who don't like it should consider alternatives.

Jaimito Cartero

Yes, you're much better off grabbing any award you could. ^

It seems that much of the DL philosophy, as well as what many of the DL apologists here say, is that you're lucky you get anything, and to be quiet.

I had to redeposit 200k worth of awards a few months back, or otherwise, I'd hoped to blow all my DL miles before my Plat expires.

Jaimito Cartero

I believe that it's mostly Kettles who buy domestic awards. In your particular case, it seems like you fly on short notice, and often in business class. It may work for you.

On Biz tickets that I book (intl, of course), I get 3 cpm at a minimum. I booked a intra-Asia award on DL for SQ, and used 40k miles for a $2100+ award. Of course I couldn't do this online. That'd be too much to ask.

I usually plan months in advance for trips, and rarely pay more than $300 for a domestic trip. I also never buy domestic FC, unless it's a jumbo fare.

I think you'll find that most FF's on FT are not that much into domestic awards. They fight the fight for international tickets, and that's where the real payday comes. If you're using a FF plan that actually has tickets, at a reasonable rate.

mnredfox

JC, I remember you burning like mad a year or two ago...smart man...

Jaimito Cartero

Yeah, I think I burned about 1.7 million from family accounts. Unfortunately with redeposits and the mileage I had on hand, I still have over 600k, but hopefully will burn more than half of that up before I drop to dirt on March 1st.

I was saving my miles up for multiple RTW Biz awards, since they were such a great value. I'm hoping to do one more, but not sure how the whole ticketing will work on DL. I asked about it last month and got a bit of a runaround on it.

GUWonder

Your posts indeed did provide fair warning about what DL management was doing with SkyMiles, and -- in contrast to some other posts -- your posts of yours were not built upon a desire to be fleeced or see others fleeced in the pursuit of material selfish-interest.

rankourabu

just the right amount for a BE ticket to Australia

mnredfox

Ack, and haven't RTW tix gone up big-time since DL took over NW? Or is that just because availability is horrible? I thought there was some big NW/DL or ST devaluation that occurred.

mooper

Hopefully you understand that it isn't the real-world CPM that dictates how much value is in a reward redemption - it is the actual price that you'd be willing to pay (*NOT* the ask price set by the airline) divided by the number of miles redeemed that indicates true value.

Ever heard of Battered Wife Syndrome? Your posts remind me of it for some reason. If you actually believe your gratuitous assertions have merit, I suggest you short-sell Delta's stock; you could make a lot of money.

moondog

I completely agree on this point; I do not value my recent JL F redemption at $22,000,... or anywhere close to it for that matter.

That having been said, whenever I attempt to use DL miles on the types of trips you describe upthread (i.e. non-discretionary, just get me there), I rarely come close to 2 cpm (i.e. saver awards typically only pop inside of the "screw me" window, and the additional fees throw off the calculus). BTW, I still have some DL status now (Ag) because I'm in the final year of an extended soft landing, so I can only guess that my situation will be even worse next March.

For the sake of simplicity, here's an example of a flight that I often try to book:

-I'm thinking of going to JAX 12/9-12/13
-As luck would have it, there's saver availability in both directions
-for 25k miles plus $10 (taxes) plus $75 (less than 20 days in advance fee), I could nab it
-However, I could snag a revenue ticket on the same dates for $301, which puts the redemption in question under 1 cpm

In order to clear 1.5 cpm, the revenue ticket would need to be >$450 (375 + 75). I challenge you, or anyone else, to find a 25k award (that you could actually use; no ACY-YEG stuff, please) that meets this mark.

mooper

I posted a number of sample near-term awards, both first and coach, and for a variety of routes, that were 1.5+ CPM (many 2+). They are now expired, so I'll quickly find another for you...

Let's say you want to go from ATL to IAD for a last minute business meeting before Thanksgiving, departing tomorrow (Tue 24th) and returning the next day (Wed 25th). You could purchase a coach ticket with a connection for as low as ~$450 or nonstop for as low as ~$750. Alternatively, you could redeem 25K DL miles for your choice from a number of nonstop flights each direction. The nonstops, even if you don't have status and need to pay a fee, will yield well over 2 CPM.