LALAland

Interesting, but I donl't think so... actually if you are low on miles, (I think) they will show you low rewards so you will go off and 'buy' miles; then come back to find the 'low' seats are gone. I really think the U.S. Justice Department should look into this fleecing.

javabytes

It's dumb all right, but it's not trying to screw Plats... at least not in this situation, as far as I can tell.

Tried sample booking of MSP-JAC out on Jan 19 2010 and return on Jan 26 2010.

While not logged in, award calendar showed green on those dates. MSP-SLC-JAC on 2333/4606 and MSP-DEN-SLC-JAC on 2269/4463/4606 both for 40,000 round trip.

While logged in, award calendar showed yellow on those dates, MSP-DEN-SLC-JAC on 2245/965/4530 or on 2269/967/4606 for 32,500 round trip. And MSP-JAC-SLC on 2333/4606 for 40,000 round trip.

So really the award calendar was lying when I wasn't logged in. Logging in brought up extra award inventory for fewer miles, and made the award calendar display properly.

GUWonder

DL indeed prefers customers to use their miles on domestic tickets on DL's own planes, but DL has done what it could to make it harder than it used to be even at the start of last year unless willing to pay far more than 25,000 miles for a domestic award ticket in coach.

32,500 (or maybe even more) is more akin to what DL wants as its new standard for a domestic award ticket in coach.

Jaimito Cartero

And what is a DL mile worth these days? I used to figure that a NW mile was worth 2 cents. AA miles 2-2 1/2 cents. I'd say a DL miles is now worth 1 cent. With luck, I'll get rid of the rest of mine before they go below 1/2 a cent.

Winkdaddy

The last official statement regarding the award calendar in any depth on this forum from DL management was back in late 2007 early 2008 when they were announcing the 3 tiered system. There has been NOTHING since. In fact, it seems that the few posts on FT that have been made this year by Delta management have gone out of their way to avoid mentioning the award calendar ...even though it is one of the very top issues that Delta customers are complaining about.

In my mind, the silence is deafening....and makes Delta look guilty of something.

mooper

One of the better conspiracy theories I've seen! I have millions of miles in my account and see low/saver awards for many domestic routes, both coach and first, including last minute, with just a little flexibility required. Some have CPM values of 3+, many yield 2+. Anything under 2 CPM I pass on, but others may find these redemptions worthwhile if they'd need to purchase the ticket otherwise.

Upon your request, I'd be happy to provide you with a sample list - without cherry picking - of dozens of domestic city pairs where travel departing in the coming week, both first and coach class, is available for 25K/45K respectively (low/saver level), and where the tickets are selling for prices that make the miles equate to 2+ CPM (sometimes 3-5 CPM). You claim that it was easier in the past, but it is hard to imagine it being any easier than it is now with the availability described above being so widespread.

Probably guilty of taking the business decision to wait until the merger, which was anticipated around the time you cited, is complete before investing aggressively in upgrading/fixing the award calendar. As the calendar works fine (not perfectly, but good enough for me to use to easily redeem dozens of domestic awards this past year) for domestic travel, and Delta isn't focused internationally, they probably deem it more efficient to wait until early need year to make the investment.

LALAland

No doubt about this statement being true. I too have no prob finding low awards for DOM flights; but low FC (which is still 100k+) on INTL flights is impossible.

stephem

Wake up folks, DL is supposed to be a world class airline and there are tons of flyers not even based in the US who have used NW for years (and I presume some DL from the posts here). This is one of the silliest things I have read in the forum, DL is most certainly focused on international operations. This is about the only place the major carriers are making any money.

I know there are a bunch of folks posting over and over here about how they can find domestic awards fine. That's not even remotely responsive to those of us who are shelling out $5k+ to travel internationally and would like to have the option to bring our spouse/family along on an award ticket from time to time (without paying 2 or 3 times the "low" rate). DL needs to realize that it is really alienating these folks. Of course as I have said before, it might be that DL just plans to make money from its AMEX relationship, in which case I should probably go somewhere else. But it just doesn't make any sense to keep telling us that "all's well with domestic awards." I don't really fly in the US so that's just not a criteria for the value of the FF program.

mooper

This was largely true in 2008, but now domestic routes are more profitable for some airlines. Take US for instance... they just passed on some international routes to focus on their most profitable area - domestic hub travel. What makes you say DL is focused on international operations, especially in light of the many complaints here on FT about their international shortcomings? If I flew internationally and didn't like what I was getting from DL, I'd evaluate my other options and go with the most appealing one.

If enough people shift their business to alternative airlines providing a better value, perhaps they would respond. Maybe there aren't enough people seeing better options, or maybe Delta is focused on more profitable areas.

Sounds like you are on the right track for your needs. For those of us who yield Delta profits via Amex spending and love what we get in return, we are on the right track in sticking with them. One airline is unlikey to be best for everyone.

GUWonder

Yes, but -- speaking of most of those customers informed about their options who also are not a captive of an airline -- one major US airline is likely to have the worst "loyalty" program of the remaining legacy US majors in terms of miles earned from flight activity being used for flight activity. It doesn't take genius to realize to which airline I am referring: "Welcome to Delta Airlines, where management thinks of its customers as the enemy and it shows."

mooper

One size doesn't fit all applies to the reward programs as well. Domestically, I and many others feel Delta is the best in class, and gives us the best bang for the mile. It seems that many are displeased with the bang for the mile they get from the awards program internationally. So be it - find the best fit for you. I fly internationally once or so a year, and I've been able to find award travel and good service with Delta for those trips. If someone else flies internationally every month and has a different experience, they should check out the other airlines and see if they find greener pastures. Some will, some will return to Delta.

thepla

Best in class, please...

As you say international is actually "no class".

For domestic Southwest is Best in Class, if they have a seat it is yours. As I have discovered, and many others here, DL gives awards for domestic at 1 cent per mile. I have only a few examples but I was looking for an award MKE-BZN, ticket was $232 and award was 25,000.

Wanted to fly sister-in-law from SLC-MKE (on the small RJ "tube of death") and DL wanted 32,000 miles (maybe 37,000 don't remember exact). I used the miles. My in-laws bought the same exact flight date/ time for $350 after I pulled the award. I do not think this is Best in Class by a long stretch. I know from AA this is not the case. I think they allocate seats and they are for awards; that is just from my experience.

mhbaker

Not simply viable--mandatory! Several years ago I switched my TATL business to BA from DL in part because of DL's pathetic BE product and in part because of the continuing problem in redeeming DL BE awards. As a result, I can now use my dwindling Skymiles for domestic travel and completely ignore the problems others now have in booking international travel on DL. It is a waste of time to wait for DL to fix these problems. As someone once said, insanity is repeating the same action and expecting a different result. This same thread will be active years from now.

Bangkok Dave

I got rid of mine by booking a NW flight to MNL late Sept. 2009 for travel early Jan. 2010. I was hesitant about booking so far out because the outbound was in WBC for 60,000 miles, with a return in ECON. for 30,000 miles. I wanted ECON. both ways to keep 30,000 miles to build on for a later trip. After reading a lot of opinions here on FT that it would be prudent to book before NW became Deltified, I went ahead and booked. I'm very glad I did. I cannot now find a flight to MNL for the amount of miles I had left.
Thanks, FTers. Seems everyone knew what they were talking about. Since I will only be Silver next year, with the Bonus miles reduced to 25%, I think it's a good time to switch to CO and start over. It's so sad. I've been elite on NW for about fifteen years straight, with an estimated success rate of over 90% getting exit row seats Transpac. Been a Worldperks member for nineteen. Again, so sad.
Dave

mooper

My opinion, as an elite member of several of the majors, is that Delta's elite program is indeed best in class for domestic use. By far, may I add. You are free to have a different opinion.

You mean *you* consider it best in class. It isn't a fact. You are entitled to your opinion.

It is not accurate to say "DL gives awards for domestic at 1 CPM", as a general statement. *Some* awards are for that, and sometimes even less, as you cited. I wouldn't redeem for such an award. They also have many awards that are in the 2-4 CPM range domestically, especially for near-term travel. If you don't believe me, simply ask, and I will gladly provide you with five examples random (not cherry-picked) examples from routings I've ticketed in the past few months. I've ticketed dozens of routes, both coach and first, both in advance and last-minute, and found plentiful low/saver availability, usually with just a little bit of flexibility required. I almost never redeem for CPM values under 1.8, and I've been averaging 2-3 CPM this year.

Redeeming for under 1 CPM, for most people, is a bad use of miles. Perhaps you should just use your DL miles for the many domestic low/saver awards that yield 2+ CPM. Especially if you use your miles that you would otherwise need to pay for (i.e., non-discretionary travel), you can save a ton of money.