Jaimito Cartero

I have never ticketed a domestic award with NW/DL. In most cases the real value of a good FF program is the ability to get international tickets, especially in Biz.

I've used 2+ million miles, and would much rather spend 90k, 100k or 120k on a a 20 or 30 hour RT Biz ticket, than 2 or 3 domestic tickets.

Given the state of the DL online award engine, it would appear that they want to make people jump through as many hoops as possible. And hope that someone actually spends their cache of 500k miles on an award ticket, that should cost 1/3 of that amount.

Perhaps DL should just add this slogan to their FF program, "Skymiles - Better Than Nothing".

Are Skymiles impossible to redeem at base levels? No, of course not. Will an average traveler be able to redeem them at base levels for international trips, online? Nope.

I tried to recreate a JNB-PHX award that I ticketed earlier this year with NW, to get a comparison to the mileage required. Ha, what a joke. Only errors every which way you turn. No such problem earlier this year on nwa.com

I think that DL just wants to expire as many miles as possible, and fob off low value awards whenever they can.

mooper

Good *for you*, maybe. Good for me, and presumably some others, no. I wouldn't care if Delta didn't fly internationally at all, for that matter. I'm looking for the best domestic awards and free upgrades for paid fares, which they have in my opinion.

mnredfox

+1. I hope DL starts to adopt more and more NW IT as time goes on, clearly they know it was better and using better things regardless of installation base is better in the long run. Perkchoice & Award UG's are on the list, I'd love to see the award engine go first.


I guess this is a sad point to hear. But yet there is increased complaints about it getting worse and Biz award in J going from difficult to impossible. What do you DL flyers do pre-merger? Fly only domestic awards? Did you just put up with this crap?

As someone who has only used awards domestic (one trip to Mexico and two to Canada), I was looking forward to using more international tix. Looks like the way things are going I won't be able to unless I want to foolishly burn miles...

Global_Hi_Flyer

You are correct with the first paragraph, and my opinion is that you are correct with the second. My conclusion is that DL wants the loyalty and benefits from the frequent flyers without having to provide much of anything in return. They know that the FF is unlikely to go elsewhere, especially with the large footprint they have now.

RealHJ

I think depends from where you are looking. From HNL and YVR I can still find some "low" availability, though not nearly as much as before. Most days are now in the SkyHigh(TM) level indeed and on many routes never anything below medium. Just to hubs like AMS, CDG, NRT can get some low awards still, from my experience, but anything further than that: almost guaranteed nothing.

troyintn

I tend to agree the Credit cards are running the show, even worse is that they will all pull out in a year or two with all the new federal rules. I can not see any no fees cards giving out points/ miles in a year or two. Very few people will spend 75 bucks or so for a card when they hear all the problems redeeming them.

troyintn

Yes which does make me wonder why I see more and more no seats for miles period. Playing around looking for some trips I see it often.

lotalota

Me too, now that I think about it. In all my years of flying I think I've just once traded in miles for a domestic ticket. All of the rest were TATL in WBC.

Do DL elites just not fly as much internationally?

Jaimito Cartero

Off the top of my head, I'd say that DL has programmed their elites to take whatever they decide to dole out.

I know that when I really got interested in frequent flyer programs about 10 years ago, it was the free international awards that I was after.

I do a limited amount of domestic flying, usually in the 4-6 trip range per year, and sometimes just to connect to a separately ticketed intl ticket.

International biz/fc awards, when they're actually available, are a great incentive to stay loyal to your FF program. RTW awards, in particular, are a superb value.

I did check NW to see how many miles/taxes it would cost to fly JNB-PHX RT. The cheapest I could find using the NW booking site, in it's Dultified state, was 230k RT, and $360 in taxes. Almost double the miles I used originally, and over 3 times the amount of "tax".

mooper

What is wrong with the airlines rewarding activity that yields them the greatest profit? I'd be GM if based purely upon my flying, but I've given Delta far more profits from my Amex activity... why shouldn't they keep giving me incentive to make them money? Profits are the only thing keeping an airline alive and supporting their quality of service.

LALAland

Use expertflyer.com -- I think you will be happier in finding what you want. There are too many reward hunters who reserve freebie seats (for 24 hours) over-and-over on DL.com to EVER get an accurate record or LOW reward seats on any international and most of the 'popular' domestic routes. If you find and good low dep and low ret --- grab it, book it and write in on your calandar as "on vacation".

moondog

You've now taken this thread into CC waters.

I agree that the CC companies are increasingly running the show, to the extent that by simply applying for cards, I can fly to Asia and back in C or F 2-3 times per year on the shoulders of sign-up bonuses.

The problem is that DL isn't a major player in this sphere. While the offers are a plenty, it's increasingly clear that the miles themselves are worthless.

If I fetch 2 Citi AA cards with 30k sign-up bonuses (with a single credit pull), I can fly to Japan in F class (one way). But, if I were to opt for a DL card, I'd be lucky to get a RT to SLC on a regional jet.

mooper

Actually, I was responding to a CC-related comment someone else initiated.

Why is this a problem?

Any data to back this up, at least for domestic travel? I save tens of thousands of dollars by redeeming my miles for domestic tickets I would otherwise need to purchase. Hardly worthless to me. Am I the only person who finds domestic availability (at low/saver level, at that) and uses it often?

LALAland

I think this is TRUE because DL GAVE away so many 'free' miles in over the years --- now they want them back at a premium.

LALAland

Depends on which AMEX card you are talking about. I've earned 45K MQM + 30K bonus miles with the AMEX Reserve this year -- whereas you only received 30k 'regular' miles with CITI... to me 45k MQMs trump 30K 'regular' miles anyday... not to mention to 30k bonus 'regular' miles. There is no adebate that AMEX is KING with Delta; Citi ranks in with Suntrust as far as their 'partnership' with any of the airlines. If you fly Delta, you are a fool to pass on the AMEX card and perks; unless (that is) you can't qualify for an AMEX PLAT or the Delta Reserve -- which is understandable given the CC companies are hording their bail-out money. Citi, Chase and AMEX are all credit whor*s in my book.