Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jun 8, 2019, 4:39 pm
#6406
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Went to Manhattan and Staten Island today to use OMNY for the first time.
1st trip:
Tapped in at 33rd St on the 6 via my Apple Watch. Express Transit worked as advertised. OMNY charged my Chase CSR $2.75 right away, right after I tapped. Took the 6 to 14th st, transferred to the 4 to Bowling Green. Walked to the Staten Island Ferry, took that over to the St George ferry terminal on SI(free). Took a S44 bus to the staten island mall. Tapped on the bus using my apple watch.
When I logged in to the omny website after tapping in at 33rd st, it showed a fare, but it did not have a station attached to it. I checked when I got to bowling green, and it had station info there.
In Staten Island, as soon as I tapped on the S44, the website showed the activity correctly. No additional charge, because it was considered a free transfer.
2nd trip:
Decided to take the SIM4C express bus back to manhattan. After messaging @tmiw, decided to use my physical CSR to tap in on the bus.
Here's where its a little weird. After tapping in on the bus, I see both a $6.75 charge and a $2.75 charge on my CSR. Logging in to omny.info, it shows a $6.75 pending charge, and a $0.00 closed charge. I guess instead of $.01, NYC uses $2.75 as a pending amount.
I took videos of me using it during the first trip, and a screenshot from omny.info. That can be found at: https://imgur.com/a/Tpp0sbD
1st trip:
Tapped in at 33rd St on the 6 via my Apple Watch. Express Transit worked as advertised. OMNY charged my Chase CSR $2.75 right away, right after I tapped. Took the 6 to 14th st, transferred to the 4 to Bowling Green. Walked to the Staten Island Ferry, took that over to the St George ferry terminal on SI(free). Took a S44 bus to the staten island mall. Tapped on the bus using my apple watch.
When I logged in to the omny website after tapping in at 33rd st, it showed a fare, but it did not have a station attached to it. I checked when I got to bowling green, and it had station info there.
In Staten Island, as soon as I tapped on the S44, the website showed the activity correctly. No additional charge, because it was considered a free transfer.
2nd trip:
Decided to take the SIM4C express bus back to manhattan. After messaging @tmiw, decided to use my physical CSR to tap in on the bus.
Here's where its a little weird. After tapping in on the bus, I see both a $6.75 charge and a $2.75 charge on my CSR. Logging in to omny.info, it shows a $6.75 pending charge, and a $0.00 closed charge. I guess instead of $.01, NYC uses $2.75 as a pending amount.
I took videos of me using it during the first trip, and a screenshot from omny.info. That can be found at: https://imgur.com/a/Tpp0sbD
Jun 8, 2019, 5:40 pm
#6407
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Didn't look honestly. It’s a two line display on subway turnstiles and less than 1 line on the bus fare boxes.
Jun 9, 2019, 5:57 am
#6408
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
In the cases of Chase and BofA, they do not show EMV information on the receipt when using mobile wallets. I suspect this means they are using MSD only. Inserting the card at the ATM does result in EMV info being printed on the receipt with Chase (I can't remember if BofA does or not).
Jun 9, 2019, 6:27 am
#6409
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
In the cases of Chase and BofA, they do not show EMV information on the receipt when using mobile wallets. I suspect this means they are using MSD only. Inserting the card at the ATM does result in EMV info being printed on the receipt with Chase (I can't remember if BofA does or not).
Jun 9, 2019, 6:39 am
#6410
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Last night we went to a new vegan restaurant here in San Diego and it turns out that they have pay at the table with Clover equipment. ^ Best part is they actually do it right and let the customer insert/tap their own cards (previous experiences with the few here that do it typically have the server inserting for guests if it's a device the server brings to the table). Tapping my card worked as expected and didn't need a signature.
That said, it does feel kinda weird that we can tap physical cards for potentially very large transactions without so much as a signature. I mean, realistically it's no different than inserting and having the signature prompt waived, but still. (Plus, issuers would probably need to have PIN on the contact interface, too, if they tried to mandate it on contactless--which I doubt they'll do.)
That said, it does feel kinda weird that we can tap physical cards for potentially very large transactions without so much as a signature. I mean, realistically it's no different than inserting and having the signature prompt waived, but still. (Plus, issuers would probably need to have PIN on the contact interface, too, if they tried to mandate it on contactless--which I doubt they'll do.)
Jun 9, 2019, 11:28 am
#6411
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
So Jason’s Deli has everything enabled now. The question remains, what brand terminal is this one?! This is one I have never seen before.
Jun 9, 2019, 11:58 am
#6412
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Last night we went to a new vegan restaurant here in San Diego and it turns out that they have pay at the table with Clover equipment. ^ Best part is they actually do it right and let the customer insert/tap their own cards (previous experiences with the few here that do it typically have the server inserting for guests if it's a device the server brings to the table). Tapping my card worked as expected and didn't need a signature.
That said, it does feel kinda weird that we can tap physical cards for potentially very large transactions without so much as a signature. I mean, realistically it's no different than inserting and having the signature prompt waived, but still. (Plus, issuers would probably need to have PIN on the contact interface, too, if they tried to mandate it on contactless--which I doubt they'll do.)
That said, it does feel kinda weird that we can tap physical cards for potentially very large transactions without so much as a signature. I mean, realistically it's no different than inserting and having the signature prompt waived, but still. (Plus, issuers would probably need to have PIN on the contact interface, too, if they tried to mandate it on contactless--which I doubt they'll do.)
My local Indian restaurant that brings devices to the table usually involves a set buffet charge per person well under $25. Waiter was used to phones, but taken aback by my tapping a physical card.
Jun 9, 2019, 12:15 pm
#6413
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
How much was the bill you charged (if you don't mind my asking)?
My local Indian restaurant that brings devices to the table usually involves a set buffet charge per person well under $25. Waiter was used to phones, but taken aback by my tapping a physical card.
My local Indian restaurant that brings devices to the table usually involves a set buffet charge per person well under $25. Waiter was used to phones, but taken aback by my tapping a physical card.
EDIT: menu
Last edited by tmiw; Jun 9, 2019 at 12:27 pm
Jun 9, 2019, 7:05 pm
#6414
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Today I noticed one of the lights turned on on the Magteks that Marriott uses at a closed register (the Starbucks area). The POS in use also looked like a fairly new Micros device. However, the terminal was still on the cashier's side of the counter and inaccessible. Getting closer to enabling EMV/contactless, perhaps?
Jun 9, 2019, 7:49 pm
#6415
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
NWFCU (DC/Northern VA area credit union) looks to have contactless credit cards: https://www.nwfcu.org/banking/cards/credit-cards
Not sure what the membership requirements are. Or if it's worthwhile now that the major banks are starting to consider it again.
Not sure what the membership requirements are. Or if it's worthwhile now that the major banks are starting to consider it again.
Jun 9, 2019, 10:35 pm
#6416
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Went to IKEA San Diego today. Main registers had just a background graphic on the screen, no text about insert, tap, or swipe, at least not before the cashier said I could insert my card. Text that displayed while the transaction was processing looked like the default Verifone text and font on top of the IKEA background graphic.
At the restaurant I ended up sitting close to the cashier so I was able to observe for a bit. I didn’t see anyone tap their phone, but it looked like for at least some Costco Visas, she inserted the card backwards then held it over the screen to process the card over NFC. I also saw her slide the terminal over to one customer to enter her PIN, from what I could see I’m guessing it was a Mexican card (Citibanamex maybe?).
At the restaurant I ended up sitting close to the cashier so I was able to observe for a bit. I didn’t see anyone tap their phone, but it looked like for at least some Costco Visas, she inserted the card backwards then held it over the screen to process the card over NFC. I also saw her slide the terminal over to one customer to enter her PIN, from what I could see I’m guessing it was a Mexican card (Citibanamex maybe?).
Jun 10, 2019, 8:35 am
#6417
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Went to Manhattan and Staten Island today to use OMNY for the first time.
1st trip:
Tapped in at 33rd St on the 6 via my Apple Watch. Express Transit worked as advertised. OMNY charged my Chase CSR $2.75 right away, right after I tapped. Took the 6 to 14th st, transferred to the 4 to Bowling Green. Walked to the Staten Island Ferry, took that over to the St George ferry terminal on SI(free). Took a S44 bus to the staten island mall. Tapped on the bus using my apple watch.
When I logged in to the omny website after tapping in at 33rd st, it showed a fare, but it did not have a station attached to it. I checked when I got to bowling green, and it had station info there.
In Staten Island, as soon as I tapped on the S44, the website showed the activity correctly. No additional charge, because it was considered a free transfer.
2nd trip:
Decided to take the SIM4C express bus back to manhattan. After messaging @tmiw, decided to use my physical CSR to tap in on the bus.
Here's where its a little weird. After tapping in on the bus, I see both a $6.75 charge and a $2.75 charge on my CSR. Logging in to omny.info, it shows a $6.75 pending charge, and a $0.00 closed charge. I guess instead of $.01, NYC uses $2.75 as a pending amount.
I took videos of me using it during the first trip, and a screenshot from omny.info. That can be found at: https://imgur.com/a/Tpp0sbD
1st trip:
Tapped in at 33rd St on the 6 via my Apple Watch. Express Transit worked as advertised. OMNY charged my Chase CSR $2.75 right away, right after I tapped. Took the 6 to 14th st, transferred to the 4 to Bowling Green. Walked to the Staten Island Ferry, took that over to the St George ferry terminal on SI(free). Took a S44 bus to the staten island mall. Tapped on the bus using my apple watch.
When I logged in to the omny website after tapping in at 33rd st, it showed a fare, but it did not have a station attached to it. I checked when I got to bowling green, and it had station info there.
In Staten Island, as soon as I tapped on the S44, the website showed the activity correctly. No additional charge, because it was considered a free transfer.
2nd trip:
Decided to take the SIM4C express bus back to manhattan. After messaging @tmiw, decided to use my physical CSR to tap in on the bus.
Here's where its a little weird. After tapping in on the bus, I see both a $6.75 charge and a $2.75 charge on my CSR. Logging in to omny.info, it shows a $6.75 pending charge, and a $0.00 closed charge. I guess instead of $.01, NYC uses $2.75 as a pending amount.
I took videos of me using it during the first trip, and a screenshot from omny.info. That can be found at: https://imgur.com/a/Tpp0sbD
Jun 10, 2019, 9:07 am
#6418
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Haven't been to NYC in a long time.
Does the MTA have a daily limit like the TFL in London?
Is it cheaper to buy some multiple MTA pack rather than pay for individual rides?
Does the MTA have a daily limit like the TFL in London?
Is it cheaper to buy some multiple MTA pack rather than pay for individual rides?
Jun 10, 2019, 9:17 am
#6419
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Besides OMNY's only on one line right now(Lex Ave between Atlantic Terminal/Barclays and Grand Central).
They got rid of the 1 day funpass too many years ago.
Jun 10, 2019, 12:37 pm
#6420
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
At the restaurant I ended up sitting close to the cashier so I was able to observe for a bit. I didn’t see anyone tap their phone, but it looked like for at least some Costco Visas, she inserted the card backwards then held it over the screen to process the card over NFC. I also saw her slide the terminal over to one customer to enter her PIN, from what I could see I’m guessing it was a Mexican card (Citibanamex maybe?).