Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
May 29, 2018, 10:47 am
#4081
Join Date: May 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: AS; Hyatt Globalist; Hilton Gold; NEXUS
Posts: 979
We were hopping around to various tasting rooms around the Amity Hills area of the Willamette Valley. Lots of square usage and thus lots of contactless acceptance. I paid with my Apple Watch to the amazement of the gentleman who owned one of the wineries. He didn't know he was so "technologically advanced."
May 29, 2018, 11:05 am
#4082
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Lots are happening in the public transit space when it comes to mobile ticketing and payments.
I’ve noticed many transit agencies in the US either already has an app, or is going to get an app that allows one to buy transit passes on their phones. It seems most US TAs are going the “Walmart Pay” route and releasing payment inside of a mobile app, sometimes with Apple Pay/G Pay in app (similar to ExxonMobil) rather than allowing it directly on a bus/faregate.
Though LA, NYC, Portland, Chicago, Philly, and Utah already have or have planned NFC readers that’ll pick up just about any credit card. My city, Phoenix, is piloting a mobile pass app, but promised open loop payments in 2019/2020 (same timeframe as the other guys).
It seems that every transit agency wants to go cashless (NYC and Boston especially) with pictures that the validators are just validators and they aren’t going to bother with accepting cash on the bus anymore, this is a good thing as it should speed the bus up. Observing a city bus here in Phoenix most people pay with passes anyway, and they should be encouraging off-board payments more when it comes to buses. Obviously trains don’t have this problem.
There is a rumor that the new iOS12 will allow some sort of transit ticketing.
I’ve noticed many transit agencies in the US either already has an app, or is going to get an app that allows one to buy transit passes on their phones. It seems most US TAs are going the “Walmart Pay” route and releasing payment inside of a mobile app, sometimes with Apple Pay/G Pay in app (similar to ExxonMobil) rather than allowing it directly on a bus/faregate.
Though LA, NYC, Portland, Chicago, Philly, and Utah already have or have planned NFC readers that’ll pick up just about any credit card. My city, Phoenix, is piloting a mobile pass app, but promised open loop payments in 2019/2020 (same timeframe as the other guys).
It seems that every transit agency wants to go cashless (NYC and Boston especially) with pictures that the validators are just validators and they aren’t going to bother with accepting cash on the bus anymore, this is a good thing as it should speed the bus up. Observing a city bus here in Phoenix most people pay with passes anyway, and they should be encouraging off-board payments more when it comes to buses. Obviously trains don’t have this problem.
There is a rumor that the new iOS12 will allow some sort of transit ticketing.
May 29, 2018, 12:31 pm
#4083
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Lots are happening in the public transit space when it comes to mobile ticketing and payments.
I’ve noticed many transit agencies in the US either already has an app, or is going to get an app that allows one to buy transit passes on their phones. It seems most US TAs are going the “Walmart Pay” route and releasing payment inside of a mobile app, sometimes with Apple Pay/G Pay in app (similar to ExxonMobil) rather than allowing it directly on a bus/faregate.
Though LA, NYC, Portland, Chicago, Philly, and Utah already have or have planned NFC readers that’ll pick up just about any credit card. My city, Phoenix, is piloting a mobile pass app, but promised open loop payments in 2019/2020 (same timeframe as the other guys).
It seems that every transit agency wants to go cashless (NYC and Boston especially) with pictures that the validators are just validators and they aren’t going to bother with accepting cash on the bus anymore, this is a good thing as it should speed the bus up. Observing a city bus here in Phoenix most people pay with passes anyway, and they should be encouraging off-board payments more when it comes to buses. Obviously trains don’t have this problem.
There is a rumor that the new iOS12 will allow some sort of transit ticketing.
I’ve noticed many transit agencies in the US either already has an app, or is going to get an app that allows one to buy transit passes on their phones. It seems most US TAs are going the “Walmart Pay” route and releasing payment inside of a mobile app, sometimes with Apple Pay/G Pay in app (similar to ExxonMobil) rather than allowing it directly on a bus/faregate.
Though LA, NYC, Portland, Chicago, Philly, and Utah already have or have planned NFC readers that’ll pick up just about any credit card. My city, Phoenix, is piloting a mobile pass app, but promised open loop payments in 2019/2020 (same timeframe as the other guys).
It seems that every transit agency wants to go cashless (NYC and Boston especially) with pictures that the validators are just validators and they aren’t going to bother with accepting cash on the bus anymore, this is a good thing as it should speed the bus up. Observing a city bus here in Phoenix most people pay with passes anyway, and they should be encouraging off-board payments more when it comes to buses. Obviously trains don’t have this problem.
There is a rumor that the new iOS12 will allow some sort of transit ticketing.
May 29, 2018, 12:38 pm
#4084
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Yes and Open Loop payments cost a lot of money to implement. And US transit operators value speed more than anything. I’ve worked with a few TAs and said that running a credit card took a lot longer than a traditional pass. It works for London because they run offline and batch out later. Ventra with a credit card and Trimet with a credit card is slower than with a Ventra card or Hop FastPass.
May 29, 2018, 12:48 pm
#4085
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Yes and Open Loop payments cost a lot of money to implement. And US transit operators value speed more than anything. I’ve worked with a few TAs and said that running a credit card took a lot longer than a traditional pass. It works for London because they run offline and batch out later. Ventra with a credit card and Trimet with a credit card is slower than with a Ventra card or Hop FastPass.
May 29, 2018, 1:40 pm
#4086
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
This place used to only have Revel swipe readers. Now they got EMV, and Apple Pay, very cool.
They also have a self checkout system, with the same setup.
The Ingenicos are on freedompay.
They also have a self checkout system, with the same setup.
The Ingenicos are on freedompay.
May 29, 2018, 2:57 pm
#4087
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Saks supports EMV contactless now. (And probably contactless in general, since it only appeared on the MC map after the latest update.)
May 29, 2018, 6:26 pm
#4088
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
Safeway seems to have fixed their contactless issues. I have not had to reboot a pin pad for a few weeks now.
May 29, 2018, 7:47 pm
#4090
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I have still ran into registers without working contactless, it does seem to be the seldomly used registers though. For the most part I’ve had good luck with Safeway contactless.
May 29, 2018, 11:22 pm
#4091
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
May 30, 2018, 1:17 am
#4092
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,061
I used Google Pay to access the Chase ATM this evening, and I was able to make a deposit successfully. I like that it's true NFC versus something like Wells Fargo's setup where one has to login to the app to generate an access code.
May 30, 2018, 9:14 am
#4093
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Do you still have to enter a PIN or did Chase manage to get rid of that step?
May 30, 2018, 8:10 pm
#4094
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,061
May 30, 2018, 10:29 pm
#4095
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
So Square's newest POS seems to handle secondary authentication the best so far; it says "see phone for instructions" if you used face unlock instead of fingerprint/PIN.
Why Verifone and Ingenico can't do something similar, I have no idea.
Why Verifone and Ingenico can't do something similar, I have no idea.