Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jun 23, 2016 | 10:53 pm
#2521
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: United Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 291
I bet there are a lot of Brits out there praying to be DCCed today!
Jun 24, 2016 | 12:57 am
#2523
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Hongkie culture leading to positive results for once!
- no patience
- (for employees) don't want to attract blame
So press the HKD button - avoid asking, avoid customer complaints.
Our IMD Most Competitive Economy ranking is as veracious as Skytrax 5-star - in reality much of the shops you shop in are chains or owned by listed groups. I suppose in a storefront environment where the owner is separated so far from the front-line employee, the employee has no motivation to con customers to increase owners' profits.
- no patience
- (for employees) don't want to attract blame
So press the HKD button - avoid asking, avoid customer complaints.
Our IMD Most Competitive Economy ranking is as veracious as Skytrax 5-star - in reality much of the shops you shop in are chains or owned by listed groups. I suppose in a storefront environment where the owner is separated so far from the front-line employee, the employee has no motivation to con customers to increase owners' profits.
Now, going to Tsui Hwa is a lot worse than going to a local restaurant in Beijing. People there are so rude and impatient if you don't speak Cantonese. Places like Kau Kee are even worse.
It's like Hong Kong people have reached this level of hatred towards others like never before.
And planes are always delayed at HKG during the summer time...
Jun 24, 2016 | 3:10 pm
#2524
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,343
I can personally concur that HK is not like it was 10 years ago. Back then, it was still a little like Japan, with its own sense of luxury, and a good hospitality sector.
Now, going to Tsui Hwa is a lot worse than going to a local restaurant in Beijing. People there are so rude and impatient if you don't speak Cantonese. Places like Kau Kee are even worse.
It's like Hong Kong people have reached this level of hatred towards others like never before.
And planes are always delayed at HKG during the summer time...
Now, going to Tsui Hwa is a lot worse than going to a local restaurant in Beijing. People there are so rude and impatient if you don't speak Cantonese. Places like Kau Kee are even worse.
It's like Hong Kong people have reached this level of hatred towards others like never before.
And planes are always delayed at HKG during the summer time...
On a side note, what is the attraction of Tsui Hwa? We have never been in this name once over. What makes it different from many Hong Kong style basic restaurants all over Hong Kong?
At least the delays at HKG are almost always weather related. Weather God is governing this. So dont like it, complain to the Weather God. How about the delays at PEK or PVG? when the delays are caused by the military and very often? Serious, what can you do?! Throw an Air Rage like so many mainlanders do?
Last edited by Happy; Jun 24, 2016 at 3:17 pm
Jun 26, 2016 | 6:40 am
#2525
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I just finished a 9 day trip in Frankfurt with an unexpected reroute through LHR on the way back due to a delayed flight. Places where I saw DCC:
Frankfurt Marriott - this was the last place I ever got hit with DCC in March 2013. I proactively asked to be charged in EUR, and I never got to see the rate. I did see the receptionist press cancel to opt out.
Hilton Frankfurt Airport - The receptionist opted out of DCC on the preauth, but the rate was around 3.3%; the terminal wasn't facing me, but I assumed the torso over counter position that percysmith taught me to make sure there were no schenanigans. I was unable to get a separate sale receipt upon checkout, but after consultation both percysmith and I believe I am okay. To be fair, receptionists were proactively offering currency choices for DCC
Fortnum & Mason at LHR T5 - This terminal is in the full control of the customer. It offered me a rate of 1.4249 USD/GBP. I just compared this to the Visa rate of June 26th, which is 1.436624 USD/GBP! Is this one of those once in a blue moon cases where DCC was actually in the customer's favor?!
Not having the Visa exchange rate immediately handy, I opted out of course. What's interesting to note also is that the Piccadilly location of Fortnum & Mason in the city did not offer DCC about 6 weeks ago when I was there.
No DCC Detected - Mantis Bar & Grill (Frankfurt), Vapiano Cafe (Frankfurt), Autogrill (The Squaire/Frankfurt Airport), McDonald's (Airport City Mall/Frankfurt), Rewe Grocery Store (The Squaire/Frankfurt Airport), Relay (Frankfurt Airport T2), and WH Smith (LHR T5)
Frankfurt Marriott - this was the last place I ever got hit with DCC in March 2013. I proactively asked to be charged in EUR, and I never got to see the rate. I did see the receptionist press cancel to opt out.
Hilton Frankfurt Airport - The receptionist opted out of DCC on the preauth, but the rate was around 3.3%; the terminal wasn't facing me, but I assumed the torso over counter position that percysmith taught me to make sure there were no schenanigans. I was unable to get a separate sale receipt upon checkout, but after consultation both percysmith and I believe I am okay. To be fair, receptionists were proactively offering currency choices for DCC
Fortnum & Mason at LHR T5 - This terminal is in the full control of the customer. It offered me a rate of 1.4249 USD/GBP. I just compared this to the Visa rate of June 26th, which is 1.436624 USD/GBP! Is this one of those once in a blue moon cases where DCC was actually in the customer's favor?!
Not having the Visa exchange rate immediately handy, I opted out of course. What's interesting to note also is that the Piccadilly location of Fortnum & Mason in the city did not offer DCC about 6 weeks ago when I was there.No DCC Detected - Mantis Bar & Grill (Frankfurt), Vapiano Cafe (Frankfurt), Autogrill (The Squaire/Frankfurt Airport), McDonald's (Airport City Mall/Frankfurt), Rewe Grocery Store (The Squaire/Frankfurt Airport), Relay (Frankfurt Airport T2), and WH Smith (LHR T5)
Jun 26, 2016 | 9:11 am
#2526
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 247
Surprised to see the DCC option twice today in the Netherlands:
Volendam Cheese Factory
Volendam bakery/cookie store
Option for USD appeared first on the credit card machine. Obviously, selected Euros.
Don't remember seeing that on one of those portable credit card machines.
Volendam Cheese Factory
Volendam bakery/cookie store
Option for USD appeared first on the credit card machine. Obviously, selected Euros.
Don't remember seeing that on one of those portable credit card machines.
Jun 29, 2016 | 6:36 am
#2527
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shinjuku, Tokyo
Programs: ccor Plus Plat, Marriot Plat, AF Silver, KF Silver
Posts: 319
What would you do?
Was hit by DCC in a Shanghai restaurant (everything elsewhere charged me CNY/RMB) with a 7% surcharge.
I received the SGD pre-approved for SGD and rejected it, asking for CNY.
They first told me that they needed the manager's code to unlock the terminal option.
OK I was willing to wait for the manager for 10 minutes.
Manager came and played for a while with the terminal, telling me that they used to be able to do that but that the bank had changed the firmware and that now the option was not available anymore, they would have to call the bank for instructions.
OK, I waited another 25 minutes, with my local Chinese friend doing the translations both ways.
Then they told me the firmware was the most recent and that the bank couldn't change it.
I had waited for too long, I signed (even though it says "I was offered a choice of payment currencies and my choice is final") and told them I would fill a claim with Mastercard.
How does one go to fill a claim with MC ?
Julien
I received the SGD pre-approved for SGD and rejected it, asking for CNY.
They first told me that they needed the manager's code to unlock the terminal option.
OK I was willing to wait for the manager for 10 minutes.
Manager came and played for a while with the terminal, telling me that they used to be able to do that but that the bank had changed the firmware and that now the option was not available anymore, they would have to call the bank for instructions.
OK, I waited another 25 minutes, with my local Chinese friend doing the translations both ways.
Then they told me the firmware was the most recent and that the bank couldn't change it.
I had waited for too long, I signed (even though it says "I was offered a choice of payment currencies and my choice is final") and told them I would fill a claim with Mastercard.
How does one go to fill a claim with MC ?
Julien
Jun 29, 2016 | 7:20 am
#2528
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
You don't file a claim with MasterCard. Instead you ask the bank that issued your card to file a chargeback against the merchant and process the transaction in local currency. For MasterCard, it's a "Reason Code 4846 Chargeback". MasterCard is more permissive than Visa and, in theory, even seems to allow buyer's remorse for DCC selection.
You would begin the process by filing a dispute with your bank stating that you were not offered the option of paying in local currency and request a Reason Code 4846 chargeback to the merchant.
In other news, the Fortnum and Mason transaction posted as $118.00. It turns out I would have been worse off with DCC given the volatility of the recent USD/GBP exchange rate:
Original Amount: 86.95
DCC Offer: $123.90 (1.4249 $/)
Posted Amount: $118.00 (1.357064 $/ using the 6/28 Visa rate)
Amount saved by avoiding DCC: $5.90
Effective DCC Markup: 5.00% (-0.82% compared to the 6/26 Visa rate of 1.436624 $/)
Jun 29, 2016 | 7:22 am
#2529
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 558
(deleted)
Last edited by NYCFlyer10001; Jun 29, 2016 at 7:22 am Reason: Majuki's post covers this
Jul 6, 2016 | 12:55 am
#2530
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
I made a recent trip to Hong Kong. While I used mostly the balance on my Octopus card, there were two credit card transactions subject to DCC:
Francfranc:
Original Amount: HK$578.50
DCC Offer: $79.06 (6% DCC markup!)
Posted Amount: $74.58 (0.128928 $/HK$ using the 7/4 Visa rate)
Amount saved by avoiding DCC: $4.48
Courtyard Hong Kong
Original Amount: HK$2376
DCC Offer: $321.34 (4.9% DCC markup!)
Posted Amount: $306.31 (0.128920 $/HK$ using the 7/5 Visa rate)
Amount saved by avoiding DCC: $15.03
Francfranc:
Original Amount: HK$578.50
DCC Offer: $79.06 (6% DCC markup!)
Posted Amount: $74.58 (0.128928 $/HK$ using the 7/4 Visa rate)
Amount saved by avoiding DCC: $4.48
Courtyard Hong Kong
Original Amount: HK$2376
DCC Offer: $321.34 (4.9% DCC markup!)
Posted Amount: $306.31 (0.128920 $/HK$ using the 7/5 Visa rate)
Amount saved by avoiding DCC: $15.03
Jul 6, 2016 | 5:52 am
#2531
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ORDwest
Posts: 333
Do you often find that the merchant clearly indicates on the receipt what the markup percentage will be, e.g., your CY receipt spells out "...plus four pt. nine..."? Assuming that the customer bothers to read all this, at least they were warned.
Jul 6, 2016 | 6:12 am
#2532
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,113
VP&SR also state cardholders must always have a choice and that DCC is voluntary. As if that rule is always observed.
Jul 6, 2016 | 1:15 pm
#2533
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 436
Seth
Jul 7, 2016 | 12:25 am
#2534
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,961
Other times they won't even give the markup rate, simply the FX rate.
Jul 7, 2016 | 8:11 am
#2535
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 558