Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Jun 19, 2016 | 6:06 pm
#2491
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,342
Came back from a long trip including London, Croatia, Sydney and Hong Kong.
No DCC attempt at all in London, Croatia and Sydney, on spends made at shops, restaurants and grocery stores. All were billed in local currency without me to choose anything. At Hong Kong one local hotel attempted multiple times to DCC (making authorization when booking online, and again at check in despite I told them to bill it in HKD). It is Hang Seng machine. In the morning of check out day I saw it was still a DCCed amount showing on Chase online, so I went down to front desk and made the guy to retrieve the correct HKD billing slip given he insisted since I already circled the HKD, it should be billed in HKD but the bank information shown otherwise. I told him if he did not track it down from the accounting dept and the amount was DCCed amount I would surely dispute it. At check out, he did manage to produce a slip showing HKD was billed. A couple hours later I saw the actual billing showed up on Chase site as the correct HKD converted.
On Hang Seng's slip it actually tells you the conversion would add 2 different % padding to the amount, I forgot the description though. I dont know how this is done as I am asked to sign on the slip that had the language with both HKD and USD both showing. Then the front desk circled HKD.
2 other local hotels did not attempt to DCC despite they too made authorization and billing (one was prepaid rate). And they too, used Hang Seng as their processors. Therefore I believe the merchants have option even on the authorizations to DCC or not to DCC.
All Hong Kong eateries, shops and supermarkets do not ever attempt to DCC. All are correctly billed in HKD.
No DCC attempt at all in London, Croatia and Sydney, on spends made at shops, restaurants and grocery stores. All were billed in local currency without me to choose anything. At Hong Kong one local hotel attempted multiple times to DCC (making authorization when booking online, and again at check in despite I told them to bill it in HKD). It is Hang Seng machine. In the morning of check out day I saw it was still a DCCed amount showing on Chase online, so I went down to front desk and made the guy to retrieve the correct HKD billing slip given he insisted since I already circled the HKD, it should be billed in HKD but the bank information shown otherwise. I told him if he did not track it down from the accounting dept and the amount was DCCed amount I would surely dispute it. At check out, he did manage to produce a slip showing HKD was billed. A couple hours later I saw the actual billing showed up on Chase site as the correct HKD converted.
On Hang Seng's slip it actually tells you the conversion would add 2 different % padding to the amount, I forgot the description though. I dont know how this is done as I am asked to sign on the slip that had the language with both HKD and USD both showing. Then the front desk circled HKD.
2 other local hotels did not attempt to DCC despite they too made authorization and billing (one was prepaid rate). And they too, used Hang Seng as their processors. Therefore I believe the merchants have option even on the authorizations to DCC or not to DCC.
All Hong Kong eateries, shops and supermarkets do not ever attempt to DCC. All are correctly billed in HKD.
Jun 19, 2016 | 6:51 pm
#2492
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,958
In the morning of check out day I saw it was still a DCCed amount showing on Chase online, so I went down to front desk and made the guy to retrieve the correct HKD billing slip given he insisted since I already circled the HKD, it should be billed in HKD but the bank information shown otherwise.
In Hong Kong you're almost always protected for two reasons: 1) The currency selection typically comes on carbon copy paper of which you receive one copy and 2) merchants can typically reprint a courtesy copy of the receipt showing the final, correct amount.
Jun 19, 2016 | 7:44 pm
#2493
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,342
Preauths are almost always the DCC amount even if the billing is correct. The only way to prevent the DCC amount on a preauth and put your mind at ease completely is to making the booking with an AmEx and switch the card at checkout. (I do this at hotels with bad behavior.) The same goes for some, but not all, purchases with DCC. For instance, the DFS machines will hold the non-DCC amount if you opt out, but others such as Francfranc or Disneyland will hold the DCC amount and post the correct amount.
In Hong Kong you're almost always protected for two reasons: 1) The currency selection typically comes on carbon copy paper of which you receive one copy and 2) merchants can typically reprint a courtesy copy of the receipt showing the final, correct amount.
Have you read that the other 2 local hotels did NOT DCC on their Preauthorized amounts? Only 1 out of 3 local hotels DCCed on the preauthorization.
I beg to differ. Just because you don't personally see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm actually surprised since Hong Kong is one of the locations with almost ubiquitous DCC deployment. While most honor DCC choices, some, such as Greyhound Cafe (or at least as of late 2014) did not.
In Hong Kong you're almost always protected for two reasons: 1) The currency selection typically comes on carbon copy paper of which you receive one copy and 2) merchants can typically reprint a courtesy copy of the receipt showing the final, correct amount.
Have you read that the other 2 local hotels did NOT DCC on their Preauthorized amounts? Only 1 out of 3 local hotels DCCed on the preauthorization.
I beg to differ. Just because you don't personally see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm actually surprised since Hong Kong is one of the locations with almost ubiquitous DCC deployment. While most honor DCC choices, some, such as Greyhound Cafe (or at least as of late 2014) did not.
I did not say Hong Kong merchants do not DCC. I just said that I had not encounter any, not even an option to choose - they all came out to HKD on the slip I signed. In fact when I mentioned to restaurants to bill in HKD, universally they all said they could only bill in HKD. Never need to choose anything on the POS. Brother said eateries normally did not DCC, hotels may be different. That matched with own experiences.
Jun 19, 2016 | 7:56 pm
#2494
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,108
Besides Greyhound, Lamma Rainbow had it too. OK you may say that's touristy, but then why did Sweetheart Restaurant also have it?!
BTW I'm assuming once installed, merchants don't badger their acquirers to take it away.
Jun 19, 2016 | 8:13 pm
#2495
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,958
I can assure the readers of this thread DCC is alive and well in Hong Kong in 2016 for restaurants, shops, and hotels. I can't comment on changes that might have taken place at Greyhound Cafe. At least in 2014, they had non-compliant terminals that did not allow any way to opt-out of DCC.
Jun 20, 2016 | 5:25 am
#2496
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 52,637
Survived a week in Norway with no sign of DCC. Then on saturday I took a colleague from India shopping in Munich and noted that every bloody POS in stores tried to DCC him, quoting amounts in INR. The store staff knew about it and proactively punched the right keys on the pin terminal when I said we prefer to be charged in EUR. ^
Jun 20, 2016 | 6:17 am
#2497
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Programs: KrisFlyer Gold
Posts: 9,605
Survived a week in Norway with no sign of DCC. Then on saturday I took a colleague from India shopping in Munich and noted that every bloody POS in stores tried to DCC him, quoting amounts in INR. The store staff knew about it and proactively punched the right keys on the pin terminal when I said we prefer to be charged in EUR. ^
Ie, we intentionally get DCC'ed by not saying anything, then have it reversed, so that the cashiers understand the process and by default will not choose DCC as they fear another voiding process
Jun 20, 2016 | 12:27 pm
#2498
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA Platinum, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Ambassador, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 8,179
Uh, yes you did. See your quote above.
Shouldn't they (in case you're not telling) ALWAYS use local currency, and if they don't, you've the right to void the transaction? Of course that's annoying (and eating your time) but I guess if enough people would tell them so, then they'll automatically choose local currency unless someone actually tells them they want to get scammed intentionally.
Jun 20, 2016 | 1:30 pm
#2499
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 30,342
I don't think either of us can produce a statistically representative sample but I've seen DCC in eateries for my time.
Besides Greyhound, Lamma Rainbow had it too. OK you may say that's touristy, but then why did Sweetheart Restaurant also have it?!
BTW I'm assuming once installed, merchants don't badger their acquirers to take it away.
Besides Greyhound, Lamma Rainbow had it too. OK you may say that's touristy, but then why did Sweetheart Restaurant also have it?!
BTW I'm assuming once installed, merchants don't badger their acquirers to take it away.
Obviously the places we went for our meals differ from the places you guys on this thread went as none of the names quoted is recognizable. We went to places mainly locals, in particular, the local locals, went, like the Chinese banquet restaurant just above the Tin Hau MTR station. It was packed with local locals each morning and evening btw. The only exceptions not being too local might be 稻香 chain, Crystal Jade chain and Maxim chain. But you still dont find a single Westerner in 稻香 Wanchai/Causeway Bay location. We have not seen any Westerner there each time we went on each trip to Hong Kong (3 trips passing thru Hong Kong since May 2015). We have not seen a single Western face at the Crystal Jade location at IFC.
Let's face it, in Hong Kong, there are places catering to foreigners, westerners in particular. There are places catering to local communities. I say one more time, all the Hong Kong restaurants, shops, supermarkets we went, not a single one attempted to DCC. The only place tried hard to DCC was one local hotel.
For those of you seem always suffer the DCC, you should opt for AMEX cards for all your spend overseas instead. The exchange rate AMEX used is better than Visa anyway based to the very limited samples I have. MC of course has the best rate but AMEX only added 0.6% versus Visa added 1%. Yet you avoid DCC completely with AMEX cards. Problem solved. And you no longer be annoyed by this scam given y'all seem always encountered whether in Asia or Europe.
(I reported not being DCCed in Madrid in April this year as well when everyone on this thread said Spain was very bad. I even printed the instruction on how to counter a DCC based on the Spanish law but thankfully never need to use it.)
Last edited by Happy; Jun 20, 2016 at 1:45 pm
Jun 20, 2016 | 4:58 pm
#2500
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,958
For those of you seem always suffer the DCC, you should opt for AMEX cards for all your spend overseas instead. The exchange rate AMEX used is better than Visa anyway based to the very limited samples I have. MC of course has the best rate but AMEX only added 0.6% versus Visa added 1%. Yet you avoid DCC completely with AMEX cards. Problem solved. And you no longer be annoyed by this scam given y'all seem always encountered whether in Asia or Europe.
I also feel like it's a defeatist attitude, sort of like using a UnionPay card in China (or Discover in Mainland China).
Jun 20, 2016 | 6:05 pm
#2501
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,108
http://www.openrice.com/zh/hongkong/...%96%AE-r174287
http://www.openrice.com/zh/hongkong/...E9%AE%AE-r2854
http://www.openrice.com/zh/hongkong/...%96%AE-r174287
(A closed restaurant appears as: http://www.openrice.com/zh/hongkong/...8%8F%9C-r17295 )
For those of you seem always suffer the DCC, you should opt for AMEX cards for all your spend overseas instead. The exchange rate AMEX used is better than Visa anyway based to the very limited samples I have. MC of course has the best rate but AMEX only added 0.6% versus Visa added 1%. Yet you avoid DCC completely with AMEX cards. Problem solved. And you no longer be annoyed by this scam given y'all seem always encountered whether in Asia or Europe.
Jun 21, 2016 | 7:32 pm
#2502
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Singapore
Programs: Krisflyer Gold, Starwood Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 444
Which bank? BCA http://m.hongkongcard.com/webeditor/..._508913143.jpg ?
Apart from that one incident in the airport I had no problems with DCC in Bali.
Jun 22, 2016 | 8:10 am
#2503
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Just went to the IFC Greyhound Caf for a look. Really crowded, offers fusion food.
Why you guys always go there even though it DCCs you?
Why you guys always go there even though it DCCs you?
Jun 22, 2016 | 9:42 am
#2504
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 22,108
Jun 22, 2016 | 10:03 am
#2505
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4
The trick of changing the currency on Airbnb to avoid DCC doesn't work anymore. Once I entered my card details I got a dialog saying "This is a US card so it'll be charged in USD" and I wasn't given an option to change it.
I disputed it with Chase, Chase said "it seems like your card is charged by a US merchant, so even if the stay is abroad, DCC rules don't apply to them". Any thoughts here?
I disputed it with Chase, Chase said "it seems like your card is charged by a US merchant, so even if the stay is abroad, DCC rules don't apply to them". Any thoughts here?