Dec 29, 2013, 6:37 am
Last edit by: seawolf
Google Doc - Debit Cards Available with no Fees
Please refer to the Google doc and update as needed for the most comprehensive list of debit cards and their charges (or lack thereof)
Visa Exchange Rates
MasterCard Exchange Rates
Please refer to the Google doc and update as needed for the most comprehensive list of debit cards and their charges (or lack thereof)
Visa Exchange Rates
MasterCard Exchange Rates
Debit cards without forex fee and other-bank ATM fees?
Nov 26, 2014, 1:29 pm
#167
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
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Nov 26, 2014, 1:55 pm
#168
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: Delta + United Airmiles
Posts: 703
I have two State Farm cards, one is a VISA debit card, the other is an ATM card, and neither charges 1% fee for cash withdrawals abroad. These transactions may go through the ATM network and not VISA. As an aside note, I made an experiment once and withdrew the same amount in foreign currency from both cards back to back and the amount in dollars was the same.
I am not sure about purchases because I generally don't do those with a debit card.
I am not sure about purchases because I generally don't do those with a debit card.
Another data point please.
I wouldn't put it past State Farm reps to not be aware that State Farm actually absorbs this fee - just odd that none of them were aware (or perhaps they were instructed to not admit this undocumented feature?). Usually I have to ask many and average the "votes".
Last edited by uds0; Nov 26, 2014 at 2:03 pm
Nov 26, 2014, 4:16 pm
#169
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If the foreign banks do not charge a SEPARATE line item of the 1%, Fido completely absorbs the fee, i.e. the exchange rates used are very near the historical mean inter-bank daily rate with less than 0.2% variance.
If the foreign banks charge a SEPARATE line item of the 1% fee (yes, there are banks do this, my most recent experience was with a BNP branch in Aix-en-Provence, where the ATM actually ate my card.) On the receipt there would be 2 items - the withdrawal amount, and the 1% fee shown as a "purchase" - that 1% would not be reimbursed by FIDO.
Schwab card that I also have, has not encountered the 1% separately charged scenario, so I do not have any idea.
The advantage Fido over Schwab to me, is NOT this little 1% thing, but because Fido has local toll-free numbers in many countries around the world while Schwab does not. Fido's rep can patch you to the ATM card's rep if you have any issue of your card. This can be a big plus when you travel A LOT all over the world on a single trip.
Unless one is living aboard and needs constant access one's funds in US-based bank accounts for this is where you draw your living expenses from, therefore the 1% is meaningful, Otherwise I simply dont see why people got so worked up on this and spent countless hours trying to get the corresponding banks to give one a "written" response to "clarify:" the matter - for how much money we are talking about here? 1% on $1K is $10, big deal.
But if you think getting to the last buck saved is your ultimate goal and you dont mind to spend countless hours to find the answers which when it comes to reality, may not be the actual practice after all, then more power to you!
Last edited by Happy; Nov 26, 2014 at 4:22 pm
Nov 26, 2014, 4:41 pm
#170
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,156
My experiences from using Fido card for many years, long before this topic becomes popular here -
If the foreign banks do not charge a SEPARATE line item of the 1%, Fido completely absorbs the fee, i.e. the exchange rates used are very near the historical mean inter-bank daily rate with less than 0.2% variance.
If the foreign banks charge a SEPARATE line item of the 1% fee (yes, there are banks do this, my most recent experience was with a BNP branch in Aix-en-Provence, where the ATM actually ate my card.) On the receipt there would be 2 items - the withdrawal amount, and the 1% fee shown as a "purchase" - that 1% would not be reimbursed by FIDO.
Schwab card that I also have, has not encountered the 1% separately charged scenario, so I do not have any idea.
The advantage Fido over Schwab to me, is NOT this little 1% thing, but because Fido has local toll-free numbers in many countries around the world while Schwab does not. Fido's rep can patch you to the ATM card's rep if you have any issue of your card. This can be a big plus when you travel A LOT all over the world on a single trip.
If the foreign banks do not charge a SEPARATE line item of the 1%, Fido completely absorbs the fee, i.e. the exchange rates used are very near the historical mean inter-bank daily rate with less than 0.2% variance.
If the foreign banks charge a SEPARATE line item of the 1% fee (yes, there are banks do this, my most recent experience was with a BNP branch in Aix-en-Provence, where the ATM actually ate my card.) On the receipt there would be 2 items - the withdrawal amount, and the 1% fee shown as a "purchase" - that 1% would not be reimbursed by FIDO.
Schwab card that I also have, has not encountered the 1% separately charged scenario, so I do not have any idea.
The advantage Fido over Schwab to me, is NOT this little 1% thing, but because Fido has local toll-free numbers in many countries around the world while Schwab does not. Fido's rep can patch you to the ATM card's rep if you have any issue of your card. This can be a big plus when you travel A LOT all over the world on a single trip.
Nov 26, 2014, 7:47 pm
#171
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR, USA
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Potentially thousands of folks can each saving $10, $20 or whatever by what is clearly and accurately documented in this group (and anyone who googles this info) by a few spending those "countless hours" ferreting out the actual reality and sharing with the rest here.
Now, that total savings buys a lot of pizzas for us rather than for the banks!
Oh, yes, I do like a challenge too, especially one that benefits so many.
Nov 26, 2014, 8:00 pm
#172
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Debit cards without forex fee and other-bank ATM fees?
Two reasons we get worked up:
(1) principle - bank cost is near zero so why give them excess profit
(2) cost savings at 3% + $5 is significant. Assume 4 withdrawals on a typical 2 week trip (maybe more or less depending on itinerary)
That could be $20 in arm fees plus forex of $30 on $1000. Personally I'd rather have the $50 for zero work on my part, but I understand that this may not be significant for those in the 1%. And multiply by multiple trips...
(1) principle - bank cost is near zero so why give them excess profit
(2) cost savings at 3% + $5 is significant. Assume 4 withdrawals on a typical 2 week trip (maybe more or less depending on itinerary)
That could be $20 in arm fees plus forex of $30 on $1000. Personally I'd rather have the $50 for zero work on my part, but I understand that this may not be significant for those in the 1%. And multiply by multiple trips...
Nov 27, 2014, 7:00 am
#173
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Yes, that is my understanding per my discussions with them. They were very careful to state that THEY do not charge any foreign transaction fee, BUT they do pass through any fees, including the 1% fee charged by VISA. Of course, they then reimburse ONLY the ATM cash withdrawal fee, if any (not the 1% ISA fee or balance inquiry or other fees). This is also consistent with my understanding that most banks and credit unions, for debit cards and most credit cards, pass through the 1% VISA fee and, because they can, many banks add their own 1-2% PURE PROFIT on top of that 1% VISA ISA fee pass-through, so that's why the magic number of 3% is so common. Any bank that charges you a 0% foreign transaction fee for VISA or MC card is eating that 1% ISA (International Service Assessment) fee charged by VISA/MC (MC may be slightly less).
I don't have the card so I can't verify, and I will double check tomorrow since I have been having lots of discussions with the main no fee banks and am only human (and over 60!) so I could possibly get the discussion results swapped.
I'll update this post with the results of tomorrow's chat with State Farm Bank.
We all need to remember that Foreign Transaction Fee has had at least several definitions. Some banks (like State Farm and even some credit unions) exclude the 1% ISA VISA fee from their use of that term. I vote for (and some banks define as) ANY amount charged above the "official" exchange rate is part of the FTF since that amount only occurs when there is a Foreign Transaction. Sadly, State Farm and some other banks also define "foreign" as anything non-State Farm, so non-State Farm ATMs in the US are defined as "foreign" ATMs - geeze!
I don't have the card so I can't verify, and I will double check tomorrow since I have been having lots of discussions with the main no fee banks and am only human (and over 60!) so I could possibly get the discussion results swapped.
I'll update this post with the results of tomorrow's chat with State Farm Bank.
We all need to remember that Foreign Transaction Fee has had at least several definitions. Some banks (like State Farm and even some credit unions) exclude the 1% ISA VISA fee from their use of that term. I vote for (and some banks define as) ANY amount charged above the "official" exchange rate is part of the FTF since that amount only occurs when there is a Foreign Transaction. Sadly, State Farm and some other banks also define "foreign" as anything non-State Farm, so non-State Farm ATMs in the US are defined as "foreign" ATMs - geeze!
I've specifically asked if the Visa 1% fee is passed on and told no.
I have also used the card to withdraw internationally and was given the exact same rate as Charles Schwabb withdrawing from the same place at the same time.
Nov 27, 2014, 10:12 am
#174
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR, USA
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A few more data points are needed (including exchange rate charged compared to rate that day), and I will again approach State Farm Bank via chat tomorrow (closed today due to holiday) armed with the VISA disclosure:
http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-be...q.jsp#anchor_5
"What is Visa's fee structure for international transactions?
Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system.
The fees are paid by financial institutions on transactions that require the use of our global infrastructure. Since Visa does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants, we have no involvement in financial institution pricing to cardholders or merchants. If financial institutions or merchants decide to assess a foreign transaction fee to their customers, they are required to provide details to their cardholders and consumers. "
since they repeatedly INSISTED that they were not the ones charging the ISA fee - clearly wrong if they pass the fee on to recover what VISA is charging them.
The data trend seems to indicate that State Farm Bank is actually eating that 1% ISA fee - you'd think that they would want to trumpet that feature!?! Of course, if they think (as they seem to) that they don't need to disclose NO foreign Transaction Fee and ABSORBING the 1% VISA ISA fee because they are NOT fees to their customers, then they need to fire their marketing department and get one that discloses these huge benefits like their competitors do!
Concerning ATM fee rebates, I've heard that VISA requires that international transactions at bank run ATMs have NO ATM fee? I've had mixed results in Europe, only occasional ATM fee charged, and that may be because the ATM was masquerading as bank ATM but actually privately run?
http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-be...q.jsp#anchor_5
"What is Visa's fee structure for international transactions?
Visa Inc. does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants. Visa applies International Service Assessment (ISA) fees ranging from 0.15 to 1 percent to its financial institution partners for their use of the global payment system.
The fees are paid by financial institutions on transactions that require the use of our global infrastructure. Since Visa does not assess any fees to cardholders or merchants, we have no involvement in financial institution pricing to cardholders or merchants. If financial institutions or merchants decide to assess a foreign transaction fee to their customers, they are required to provide details to their cardholders and consumers. "
since they repeatedly INSISTED that they were not the ones charging the ISA fee - clearly wrong if they pass the fee on to recover what VISA is charging them.
The data trend seems to indicate that State Farm Bank is actually eating that 1% ISA fee - you'd think that they would want to trumpet that feature!?! Of course, if they think (as they seem to) that they don't need to disclose NO foreign Transaction Fee and ABSORBING the 1% VISA ISA fee because they are NOT fees to their customers, then they need to fire their marketing department and get one that discloses these huge benefits like their competitors do!
Concerning ATM fee rebates, I've heard that VISA requires that international transactions at bank run ATMs have NO ATM fee? I've had mixed results in Europe, only occasional ATM fee charged, and that may be because the ATM was masquerading as bank ATM but actually privately run?
Nov 27, 2014, 10:27 am
#175
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Concerning ATM fee rebates, I've heard that VISA requires that international transactions at bank run ATMs have NO ATM fee? I've had mixed results in Europe, only occasional ATM fee charged, and that may be because the ATM was masquerading as bank ATM but actually privately run?
When I take money out with my Schwab Visa debit card, I have no charges but when I use my Deutsche Bank or BoA cards there definitely are -- except if the banks are part of the same group.
Nov 27, 2014, 12:30 pm
#176
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Nov 27, 2014, 3:23 pm
#177
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,166
Schwab Bank and State Farm Bank have a lot of nice common features:
1. No Foreign Transaction Fees.
2. No account annual or monthly fees.
3. No minimum balance.
4. Unlimited free ATM access world wide (via reimbursements). State Farm has one easily satisfied condition.
State Farm has easier access which includes a local ATM or local insurance agent deposit feature, whereas Schwab requires mailing in a form to link to a local bank account and use ACH (which takes several days each time).
Unlike State Farm (and most CUs to), Schwab ABSORBS the 1% VISA currency conversion fee part of the typical 3% Foreign Transaction Fee that BofA starting charging on their debit cards (but not their no annual fee Travel Rewards card) in November of 2013 and many other banks still charge on both debit and credit cards. I recall there are a few other banks that absorb that 1% VISA fee, but understand that they don't refund ATM fees.
After numerous calls and chats with State Farm and Schwab Bank to confirm my understandings and eventually taking an average on the responses (since they varied as usual) I finally got the Schwab rep to deliver and confirm the specific language, which is NOT in the "terms and conditions" which they call "Visa Debit Card Agreement", but is rather in the "Pricing Guide" which the Fees section of the Card Agreement refers to (which refers back the Card Agreement for "details"!).
Here are the magic words from the Pricing Guide:
"There is no ADDITIONAL percentage added for the foreign currency transaction" (silly wording - since it is added to the nothing that Schwab charges)
The rep repeatedly confirmed that this language included the 1% fee that VISA charges for foreign currency conversion and that Schwab absorbed that fee.
This is consistent with all prior discussions with Schwab reps, but was the first time that any rep could actually cite the supporting language in their agreement.
Hope this helps further confirm, with authoritative source info, that Schwab really doesn't charge FTFs and absorbs the ISA fee VISA charges for foreign currency conversion.
1. No Foreign Transaction Fees.
2. No account annual or monthly fees.
3. No minimum balance.
4. Unlimited free ATM access world wide (via reimbursements). State Farm has one easily satisfied condition.
State Farm has easier access which includes a local ATM or local insurance agent deposit feature, whereas Schwab requires mailing in a form to link to a local bank account and use ACH (which takes several days each time).
Unlike State Farm (and most CUs to), Schwab ABSORBS the 1% VISA currency conversion fee part of the typical 3% Foreign Transaction Fee that BofA starting charging on their debit cards (but not their no annual fee Travel Rewards card) in November of 2013 and many other banks still charge on both debit and credit cards. I recall there are a few other banks that absorb that 1% VISA fee, but understand that they don't refund ATM fees.
After numerous calls and chats with State Farm and Schwab Bank to confirm my understandings and eventually taking an average on the responses (since they varied as usual) I finally got the Schwab rep to deliver and confirm the specific language, which is NOT in the "terms and conditions" which they call "Visa Debit Card Agreement", but is rather in the "Pricing Guide" which the Fees section of the Card Agreement refers to (which refers back the Card Agreement for "details"!).
Here are the magic words from the Pricing Guide:
"There is no ADDITIONAL percentage added for the foreign currency transaction" (silly wording - since it is added to the nothing that Schwab charges)
The rep repeatedly confirmed that this language included the 1% fee that VISA charges for foreign currency conversion and that Schwab absorbed that fee.
This is consistent with all prior discussions with Schwab reps, but was the first time that any rep could actually cite the supporting language in their agreement.
Hope this helps further confirm, with authoritative source info, that Schwab really doesn't charge FTFs and absorbs the ISA fee VISA charges for foreign currency conversion.
Nov 27, 2014, 4:31 pm
#178
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR, USA
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Schwab Bank Electronic Funds Transfer Enrollment form with my original signature AND a voided check.
Are you stating that you were able to set up that initial (and other) links to your other banks online?
Nov 27, 2014, 6:10 pm
#179
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Interesting ... I just set up my first link to my local bank to make funding via ACH possible. They REQUIRED a paper form:
Schwab Bank Electronic Funds Transfer Enrollment form with my original signature AND a voided check.
Are you stating that you were able to set up that initial (and other) links to your other banks online?
Schwab Bank Electronic Funds Transfer Enrollment form with my original signature AND a voided check.
Are you stating that you were able to set up that initial (and other) links to your other banks online?
Nov 27, 2014, 8:17 pm
#180
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Programs: Delta + United Airmiles
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The Schwab brokerage account "gives" you the ability to have a Schwab checking account. That checking account comes with a debit card. You don't identify which of those 2 accounts you linked your BofA to.