Sjoerd

Depends on your definition of good weather: around 15C, cloudy and quite rainy in winter.

stimpy

Another EU place that seems stable are the Canary Islands. They had 162 deaths early on, but now near the end of July they are still at 162 deaths. I used to be based in Tenerife and loved the variety of the island. It is a relatively cheap place too as it has no EU VAT.

The_Bouncer

Beats -2 and snowy at home.

The_Bouncer

Spain is being way too eager to throw down restrictions for my liking. But for that, Tenerife would be the best choice in the Eurosphere by a country mile.

nk15

There is no where in Europe you can have swimming weather in the winter, perhaps around 20-25 degrees in November or so in the South, but it will not hold for dec-Feb, unless an unusually warm year, which are more common lately, actually.

stimpy

Umm, just a few posts above I mentioned Tenerife which is in EU and has great swimming weather in the winter, at most of the beach areas. Yes it is geographically off the west coast of Africa, but it is Spain and very European. There are plenty of other places that are fully part of the EU and have great beach weather in the winter.

tlott

I'd look at what happened the first time around when trying to determine how a given destination is going to lock down for a second wave.

I was living long term in Russia for the first wave, and departed with hours notice on March 26 or 27 when they announced intl. air traffic was being suspended that midnight. Flew back to USA via IST - coincidentally I was also on the last TK1 IST-JFK before they closed their normal air traffic down as well.

It turns out, in both cases, whether "stranded" in Russia or Turkey, I'd have been able to return to the USA cost effectively as long as I was flexible in travel dates (within a week of wanting to return, at the absolute longest). Their international flight restrictions both ended up not being 100%. Russia continued semi regular flights to JFK, and there were still Belavia flights out of IST and TK operated flights semi regularly. Both Aeroflot & TK were running repatriation flights ex-USA that one could easily book on the way to the USA.

Probably not representative of many places that are less connected & more remote, but that is how I am basing my thinking going forward.

the810

I'm sceptical about an idea of direct proportonality between individual countries' actions during first and second wave. I think we will see quite a few countries acting very differently, whether it means tougher or more relaxed approach. Looking into public opinion at the moment (or shortly before travel) would be much more effective to determine chances of extreme lockdown. There are places where public regrets the approach during the first wave, or where there's a significant "let's move on" attitude in the society.

This may be less relevant in countries with authoritarian regimes, but since we're mostly talking about the EU in this thread, I think we will see quite a few surprises.

The_Bouncer

That's the UK out then.

889

"Looking into public opinion at the moment (or shortly before travel) would be much more effective to determine chances of extreme lockdown."

Considering what happened in Belgrade a couple of weeks ago when the president first hinted another lockdown might be needed then was quickly forced to back down by the crowds, I think Serbia is pretty unlikely to return to a lockdown unless the situation becomes worse than dire.

Not that Serbia would make a great winter hangout. Kotor in Montenegro seems somewhat sunny and not too cold, though.

nk15

C'mon...Greece is unswimmable between Dec-Feb, and I am pretty sure the same is true for Spain and Italy. Cyprus is the only place that may have a fighting chance...

HumbleBee

Iran & Spain

The_Bouncer

For swimming weather between November and March, you really need to forget Europe.

Arguments aside, whether Tenerife and the rest of the Canaries geographically constitute "Europe", I would strongly argue that they belong to the "Eurosphere".

What I would dispute is that an air temperature of 24°C and a water temperature of 20°C is "swimming weather". Ok - weather-wise, I am Australian - a beach day for me is low-mid 30s or higher.

25°C to me, is "drinking beer in a waterside bar" weather - which is a bloody sight better than "watching Netflix under the duvet" weather, which is what I face in Austria in the winter.

:D!

I have a feeling that people "fleeing" a second wave are going to be the instigators of a second (or first) wave in their area of refuge.

The_Bouncer

It depends, whether those people are fleeing a second wave of the virus, or fleeing a second wave of lockdowns.