Jun 24, 2020, 6:06 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
Moderator announcement - June 23, 2020:
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Coronavirus and masks/face coverings [Consolidated thread]
Jun 4, 2020, 6:51 am
#901
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
In North America wearing a mask when not required has become a public assertion of "moral superiority" similar to driving a hybrid or being a vegetarian.
Jun 4, 2020, 7:28 am
#902
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,672
Sadly, for those of us who have been in this business for a while.....
Showing factual data to those who have their own "opinion" on health care information is a real waste of time.
People are non-compliant for many reasons. I have long ago given up trying to either discover why that is, or convince such people that perhaps they should rethink their ideas.
Showing factual data to those who have their own "opinion" on health care information is a real waste of time.
People are non-compliant for many reasons. I have long ago given up trying to either discover why that is, or convince such people that perhaps they should rethink their ideas.
Jun 4, 2020, 9:40 am
#903
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,147
Jun 4, 2020, 10:15 am
#904
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, MLife Gold, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold, Caesars Diamond, Amex Plat
Posts: 5,952
I’m frustrated by so many differing statements about masks and social distancing. And I’m being challenged by family members who want more freedom. Can someone answer a couple of specific questions for me?
1) If sitting 6’ apart inside (for ex, a restaurant or even private home), is a mask still desirable or needed?
2) If sitting 6’ apart outside, is a mask unnecessary?
3) If walking in an interior space (I.e. store) where few are wearing masks, will an N95 mask protect wearer significantly?
4) Do UV rays “clean” masks? If so, how long for exposure to clean?
1) If sitting 6’ apart inside (for ex, a restaurant or even private home), is a mask still desirable or needed?
2) If sitting 6’ apart outside, is a mask unnecessary?
3) If walking in an interior space (I.e. store) where few are wearing masks, will an N95 mask protect wearer significantly?
4) Do UV rays “clean” masks? If so, how long for exposure to clean?
Jun 4, 2020, 10:20 am
#905
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
The people who understand the viral load and aerosolized transmission ranges indoors and out who selectively wear a mask when themselves and others are at risk, do not fit your description above. This is "required" no matter what a government might say.
Being a vegetarian is about controlling what is inside your own body. Demanding everyone else be a vegetarian, is more appropriate of the person you are trying to describe.
I would argue that you can generalize more about the person who does not wear a mask where indicated than you can by someone who does.
Jun 4, 2020, 10:27 am
#906
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,704
I’m frustrated by so many differing statements about masks and social distancing. And I’m being challenged by family members who want more freedom. Can someone answer a couple of specific questions for me?
1) If sitting 6’ apart inside (for ex, a restaurant or even private home), is a mask still desirable or needed?
2) If sitting 6’ apart outside, is a mask unnecessary?
3) If walking in an interior space (I.e. store) where few are wearing masks, will an N95 mask protect wearer significantly?
4) Do UV rays “clean” masks? If so, how long for exposure to clean?
1) If sitting 6’ apart inside (for ex, a restaurant or even private home), is a mask still desirable or needed?
2) If sitting 6’ apart outside, is a mask unnecessary?
3) If walking in an interior space (I.e. store) where few are wearing masks, will an N95 mask protect wearer significantly?
4) Do UV rays “clean” masks? If so, how long for exposure to clean?
2. No assuming this is not a crowded area.
3. Not sure about this. The point of mask is “you protect me, I protect you”.
4. If you are using cloth masks: treat them as underwear. One day usage, clean with hot water and soap or washing machine. Dry outside. If using surgical mask: 30 minute in an oven at 70 degrees Celsius, without touching the metallic part of the oven. UV is good enough in between use. I let mine hang outside for a few hours if I need one for a morning outing and an evening outing.
Jun 4, 2020, 10:31 am
#907
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
I’m frustrated by so many differing statements about masks and social distancing. And I’m being challenged by family members who want more freedom. Can someone answer a couple of specific questions for me?
1) If sitting 6’ apart inside (for ex, a restaurant or even private home), is a mask still desirable or needed? There may be an issue if there is directional airflow or if one person is shouting, coughing, singing. I would not go to an indoor restaurant at all since people can't wear masks there. Outdoors, 6 feet is fine, especially if sunny. Private home is different if you know where the people around you have been and what their own personal mitigation strategies are.
2) If sitting 6’ apart outside, is a mask unnecessary? Unnecessary if neither of you are sick or coughing.
3) If walking in an interior space (I.e. store) where few are wearing masks, will an N95 mask protect wearer significantly? Fit matters way more than material for how well the wearer is protected. That being said, a store involves transient passing exposure to others compared to being in a car with someone or at the same table for 30 minutes. Don't forget hand washing after going to that environment, too.
4) Do UV rays “clean” masks? If so, how long for exposure to clean?UV or sunlight is a natural disinfectant for viruses. A mask stored indoors can be used every 4-5 days but a mask left in sun for a few hours can probably be used next day. Expose both sides equally to the UV. UV is used to disinfect hospital rooms but it is a measured dose.
1) If sitting 6’ apart inside (for ex, a restaurant or even private home), is a mask still desirable or needed? There may be an issue if there is directional airflow or if one person is shouting, coughing, singing. I would not go to an indoor restaurant at all since people can't wear masks there. Outdoors, 6 feet is fine, especially if sunny. Private home is different if you know where the people around you have been and what their own personal mitigation strategies are.
2) If sitting 6’ apart outside, is a mask unnecessary? Unnecessary if neither of you are sick or coughing.
3) If walking in an interior space (I.e. store) where few are wearing masks, will an N95 mask protect wearer significantly? Fit matters way more than material for how well the wearer is protected. That being said, a store involves transient passing exposure to others compared to being in a car with someone or at the same table for 30 minutes. Don't forget hand washing after going to that environment, too.
4) Do UV rays “clean” masks? If so, how long for exposure to clean?UV or sunlight is a natural disinfectant for viruses. A mask stored indoors can be used every 4-5 days but a mask left in sun for a few hours can probably be used next day. Expose both sides equally to the UV. UV is used to disinfect hospital rooms but it is a measured dose.
Jun 4, 2020, 10:34 am
#908
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,756
The UK just announced wearing a mask will now be mandatory on public transport in England, with planes specifically mentioned (though of course with all UK Government announcements that may change).
Jun 4, 2020, 10:42 am
#909
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 17,460
I don't usually do this, but I must say your prescriptive posts have been very helpful to me and have helped me model my behavior in public places. Thank you.
(I specify your prescriptive posts, because tbh the more epidemiological discussions frankly go mostly over my head. But intelligent discussion there gives credence to your suggestions here.)
(I specify your prescriptive posts, because tbh the more epidemiological discussions frankly go mostly over my head. But intelligent discussion there gives credence to your suggestions here.)
Jun 4, 2020, 10:52 am
#910
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,051
I think it goes well beyond that. This pandemic is a terrible thing. There can be lots of room for finger pointing and I’ve done my share but the major villain in this is the virus. And we shouldn’t be depending on a miracle or someone else entirely to make it go away or at least get it under control. We all have to contribute to that by wearing a mask, social distancing and staying out of large crowds, especially indoors if we want to get this pandemic under control. People need to wear a damn mask.
Jun 4, 2020, 10:53 am
#911
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Haze gray and underway
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott 'clink clink' Titanium
Posts: 1,784
And it should be!
I don't wear a specific kind of mask or even at all because someone says/tells me that I should.
I wear a mask to protect myself. Period end of sentence. I wear one kind of mask at work due to materials being used and a different kind when it is to protect others. I wear masks in various areas in Asia due to industrial pollution (china) and smoke from forest burn offs (Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore) and I wear a mask on a plane because it's required to board and I need to get somewhere and it's also to protect ME!
I don't wear a specific kind of mask or even at all because someone says/tells me that I should.
I wear a mask to protect myself. Period end of sentence. I wear one kind of mask at work due to materials being used and a different kind when it is to protect others. I wear masks in various areas in Asia due to industrial pollution (china) and smoke from forest burn offs (Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore) and I wear a mask on a plane because it's required to board and I need to get somewhere and it's also to protect ME!
Jun 4, 2020, 10:56 am
#912
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,051
And it should be!
I don't wear a specific kind of mask or even at all because someone says/tells me that I should.
I wear a mask to protect myself. Period end of sentence. I wear one kind of mask at work due to materials being used and a different kind when it is to protect others. I wear masks in various areas in Asia due to industrial pollution (china) and smoke from forest burn offs (Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore) and I wear a mask on a plane because it's required to board and I need to get somewhere and it's also to protect ME!
I don't wear a specific kind of mask or even at all because someone says/tells me that I should.
I wear a mask to protect myself. Period end of sentence. I wear one kind of mask at work due to materials being used and a different kind when it is to protect others. I wear masks in various areas in Asia due to industrial pollution (china) and smoke from forest burn offs (Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore) and I wear a mask on a plane because it's required to board and I need to get somewhere and it's also to protect ME!
Stopping this pandemic helps you. People without symptoms not spreading to other people helps the person without symptoms because it facilitates a return of economic activity. The accurate term for self interest is typically “enlightened self interest”. The “enlightened” part means something.
Jun 4, 2020, 11:46 am
#913
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Haze gray and underway
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott 'clink clink' Titanium
Posts: 1,784
Stopping this pandemic helps you. People without symptoms not spreading to other people helps the person without symptoms because it facilitates a return of economic activity. The accurate term for self interest is typically “enlightened self interest”. The “enlightened” part means something.
Jun 4, 2020, 12:06 pm
#914
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,051
Well, he certainly was but while this post is so cryptic I’m not certain I understand it I’ll add a bit. What Darwin referred to as survival of the fittest meant reproductive survival of the fittest. Since most of those with very bad cases of coronavirus are well past reproductive age, coronavirus likely has virtually no impact on survival of the fittest in a Darwinian sense. In addition, no matter what their age, the more people who are sick the more everyone is adversely impacted, even if a given person isn’t sick, due to the economic impact on everyone. That’s why wearing masks helps everyone. Even if they don’t realize it, the virus does.
Jun 4, 2020, 12:29 pm
#915
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate
Programs: *A Gold (A3), HHonor Gold
Posts: 5,704
And it should be!
I don't wear a specific kind of mask or even at all because someone says/tells me that I should.
I wear a mask to protect myself. Period end of sentence. I wear one kind of mask at work due to materials being used and a different kind when it is to protect others. I wear masks in various areas in Asia due to industrial pollution (china) and smoke from forest burn offs (Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore) and I wear a mask on a plane because it's required to board and I need to get somewhere and it's also to protect ME!
I don't wear a specific kind of mask or even at all because someone says/tells me that I should.
I wear a mask to protect myself. Period end of sentence. I wear one kind of mask at work due to materials being used and a different kind when it is to protect others. I wear masks in various areas in Asia due to industrial pollution (china) and smoke from forest burn offs (Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore) and I wear a mask on a plane because it's required to board and I need to get somewhere and it's also to protect ME!