Last edit by: NewbieRunner
Moderator announcement - June 23, 2020:
Flyertalks moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members statements. While thats fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Flyertalks moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members statements. While thats fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Coronavirus and masks/face coverings [Consolidated thread]
#751
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,290
Endgame:
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/...d=WO2020060606
you might want to try and read up on sources other than CNN & NYT ;-)
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/...d=WO2020060606
you might want to try and read up on sources other than CNN & NYT ;-)
#752
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,000
Official US patent site, my friend. Not a theory. Just facts
#754
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Hawaii
Programs: AA EXP, HA PL, Hilton 💎, Marriott Ti, Wyndham/Caesars 💎, Hertz PC
Posts: 343
Endgame:
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/...d=WO2020060606
you might want to try and read up on sources other than CNN & NYT ;-)
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/...d=WO2020060606
you might want to try and read up on sources other than CNN & NYT ;-)
#756
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,570
The tin foil hat should be N100 and properly fitted, because N95 means that at least 5 out of 100 conspiracy theories may slip through and infect the brain...
A regular fabric hat barely filters out 30% of conspiracy theories, but it is better than nothing....
A regular fabric hat barely filters out 30% of conspiracy theories, but it is better than nothing....
#757
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Paris & Scotland (Laird), "Suite on the World"
Programs: Hertz platinum, Bonvoy titanium , Delta flying colonel/platinum/MM, retired old men board member
Posts: 592
In the age of coronavirus and asymptomatic spread, they DO NOT wear them in patient care without an additional covering on top.
Maybe you can find a video from last year or earlier with a HCW wearing one, but no more. While it is more likely the patient has more viral load than the provider, we can not be certain any HCW is NOT spreading the virus.
Not sure how this matters for "Coronavirus and Travel", the subject of this board, because no HCW on a flight needs the same protection that they need at work, and the cabin is not an ICU.
Maybe you can find a video from last year or earlier with a HCW wearing one, but no more. While it is more likely the patient has more viral load than the provider, we can not be certain any HCW is NOT spreading the virus.
Not sure how this matters for "Coronavirus and Travel", the subject of this board, because no HCW on a flight needs the same protection that they need at work, and the cabin is not an ICU.
#758
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Paris & Scotland (Laird), "Suite on the World"
Programs: Hertz platinum, Bonvoy titanium , Delta flying colonel/platinum/MM, retired old men board member
Posts: 592
Adjustable Size (Fits For All)
#759
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.8MM
Posts: 6,275
Not sure of the exact purpose of the previous post showing an exhalation valve on a mask.
Here's a cropped screen-grab from a PDF of 3M's Cool Flow Valve.
It shows its function and purpose.
As there's obviously some of the exhaled air being expelled through the valve without being filtered, and directed downward and to the side,
it would be very interesting to see one of those videos where it shows the path of someone's breath, especially during coughing and especially
comparing this type of mask (with a valve) and say, a thin cloth layer of a bandana.
Here's a cropped screen-grab from a PDF of 3M's Cool Flow Valve.
It shows its function and purpose.
As there's obviously some of the exhaled air being expelled through the valve without being filtered, and directed downward and to the side,
it would be very interesting to see one of those videos where it shows the path of someone's breath, especially during coughing and especially
comparing this type of mask (with a valve) and say, a thin cloth layer of a bandana.
#760
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 61
Love it. 50 posts - 100 different opinions.
I think we will all kill each other regarding "wear or not to wear masks" before the coronavirus does. Hey, didn't U2 write a song about that? "with or without masks..."
Ok, well thanks for the entertainment - just popped in on my way to book flights.
I think we will all kill each other regarding "wear or not to wear masks" before the coronavirus does. Hey, didn't U2 write a song about that? "with or without masks..."
Ok, well thanks for the entertainment - just popped in on my way to book flights.
#761
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
Not sure of the exact purpose of the previous post showing an exhalation valve on a mask.
Here's a cropped screen-grab from a PDF of 3M's Cool Flow Valve.
It shows its function and purpose.
As there's obviously some of the exhaled air being expelled through the valve without being filtered, and directed downward and to the side,
it would be very interesting to see one of those videos where it shows the path of someone's breath, especially during coughing and especially
comparing this type of mask (with a valve) and say, a thin cloth layer of a bandana.
Here's a cropped screen-grab from a PDF of 3M's Cool Flow Valve.
It shows its function and purpose.
As there's obviously some of the exhaled air being expelled through the valve without being filtered, and directed downward and to the side,
it would be very interesting to see one of those videos where it shows the path of someone's breath, especially during coughing and especially
comparing this type of mask (with a valve) and say, a thin cloth layer of a bandana.
You want a cooler environment?
Wear a loose fitting paper mask with ear loops. You will feel cooler breathing in unfiltered air around the edges, but your cough will be caught by the mask in front of your face no matter how loose it is, and anything you exhale will be blocked, or deflected, not accelerated through a narrow valve chamber.
The valve ALWAYS sacrifices others for the good of the user.
#762
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: 42.1% in PDX , 49.9% in PVG & 8% in the air somewhere
Programs: Marriott Ambassador Elite, UA 1K, AS MVP GLD 75K, DL Pt
Posts: 1,086
How well do people put N95 masks on? Apparently, not so well, according to this research report.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...m_medium=email
"The survey was administered to 2499 households. Of these, 268 households were excluded because they did not meet the inclusion criteria. Among the remaining 2231 households, 714 (32.0%) completed the survey, 541 (24.2%) declined to be surveyed, and 976 (43.7%) did not respond. There were slightly more women participants (382 women [53.5%]). Most participants were aged 41 to 65 years (356 participants [49.9%]) and were of Chinese ethnicity (514 participants [72.0%]) (Table 1). Only 90 participants (12.6%; 95% CI, 10.3%-15.3%) passed the VMF test.
"Our study found a low N95 VMF pass rate of 12.6%. The observation that reading pictorial instructions was not associated with increased VMF pass rates may suggest an inherent complexity to N95 mask wearing."
VMF=Visual mask fit
As I have said, wearing masks is not for the user, but for the people surrounding the user. Putting on and taking masks off correctly requires more than visual or minimal instructions. This however should not deter people from using masks. However, wasting money on fancy N95 masks can probably be avoided unless one is in a clinical situation where such PPE is needed.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...m_medium=email
"The survey was administered to 2499 households. Of these, 268 households were excluded because they did not meet the inclusion criteria. Among the remaining 2231 households, 714 (32.0%) completed the survey, 541 (24.2%) declined to be surveyed, and 976 (43.7%) did not respond. There were slightly more women participants (382 women [53.5%]). Most participants were aged 41 to 65 years (356 participants [49.9%]) and were of Chinese ethnicity (514 participants [72.0%]) (Table 1). Only 90 participants (12.6%; 95% CI, 10.3%-15.3%) passed the VMF test.
"Our study found a low N95 VMF pass rate of 12.6%. The observation that reading pictorial instructions was not associated with increased VMF pass rates may suggest an inherent complexity to N95 mask wearing."
VMF=Visual mask fit
As I have said, wearing masks is not for the user, but for the people surrounding the user. Putting on and taking masks off correctly requires more than visual or minimal instructions. This however should not deter people from using masks. However, wasting money on fancy N95 masks can probably be avoided unless one is in a clinical situation where such PPE is needed.
These days N95 are still pricey and likely harder to get, I'm skeptical today that for those that do wear N95 that is measurably going to take away that valuable PPE from the medical community like it did 4-6 weeks ago. Are they still hard to come by but not like before, so the argument against N95 is really very academic, I'd opt for the best for myself and protection of others!
I had to do a honey to do run to Home Depot yesterday, I'd say 3/4ths were the surgical/cloth etc. and surprisingly 1/4 was N95 most with valve. I am wearing a N95 no valve more because I secured 16 1st week of January. I've used/built a homemade out of scarves and my son's custom with built in but replaceable filter ( with valve ) and extensively used the N95 with valve in China for years. If I was to judge based on airflow resistance both in and out the N95 even when I fit it poorly for protecting me is best, sure for outflow filter the one with valve is less in trapping droplets but still redirects the flow, all it takes is for you to feel it to understand it is far better, safer and caring to your fellow human than the no mask right wing freedom lovers;-)
Any mask is better than no mask, and tight fitting N95 no valve is best, LOL
Last edited by chipmaster; May 24, 2020 at 12:27 pm
#763
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
32% of study participants completed the survey. Well that is encouraging.
100% of medical students use a mask incorrectly on their first day of surgery rotation.
By Wednesday, half of them have it right.
By Friday, they all have it down.
I think a lot of people had a pretty bad experience the first time they tried to do anything.
Practice makes perfect.
100% of medical students use a mask incorrectly on their first day of surgery rotation.
By Wednesday, half of them have it right.
By Friday, they all have it down.
I think a lot of people had a pretty bad experience the first time they tried to do anything.
Practice makes perfect.
#764
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,290
masks with exhalation valves are NOT the kind of masks you need to wear - these are masks that will only protect the wearer, not other people - and mask-wearing is to prevent you as an asymptomatic spreader from infecting others. It's the ultimate "selfish" mask.
Which, given that the previous poster has said he only cares about himself and not others, was probably their point.
Which, given that the previous poster has said he only cares about himself and not others, was probably their point.
#765
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Paris & Scotland (Laird), "Suite on the World"
Programs: Hertz platinum, Bonvoy titanium , Delta flying colonel/platinum/MM, retired old men board member
Posts: 592
Sorry, this mask doesn't cut it.
You want a cooler environment?
Wear a loose fitting paper mask with ear loops. You will feel cooler breathing in unfiltered air around the edges, but your cough will be caught by the mask in front of your face no matter how loose it is, and anything you exhale will be blocked, or deflected, not accelerated through a narrow valve chamber.
The valve ALWAYS sacrifices others for the good of the user.
You want a cooler environment?
Wear a loose fitting paper mask with ear loops. You will feel cooler breathing in unfiltered air around the edges, but your cough will be caught by the mask in front of your face no matter how loose it is, and anything you exhale will be blocked, or deflected, not accelerated through a narrow valve chamber.
The valve ALWAYS sacrifices others for the good of the user.