Jun 24, 2020, 6:06 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
Moderator announcement - June 23, 2020:
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Coronavirus and masks/face coverings [Consolidated thread]
May 10, 2020, 6:27 pm
#556
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 6
I've been wearing masks since early March and will throughout the rest of the year. Even it's a 1% chance of helping, I will do it.
May 10, 2020, 7:40 pm
#557
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
CNN reported that the heads of the FDA, CDC, and NIAID (Hahn, Redfield, and Fauci) will go into "modified quarantines" working from home, for fears of having been exposed to the virus.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ro...rtan-ntp-feeds
They will be hiding at home out of shame for not wearing masks and embarrassing the US...When outside of home, they will be wearing masks to hide their embarrassment...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ro...rtan-ntp-feeds
They will be hiding at home out of shame for not wearing masks and embarrassing the US...When outside of home, they will be wearing masks to hide their embarrassment...
When you have close contact with an infected individual, whether you wore a mask or not at that time has no bearing based on current guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer View Post
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...567v1.full.pdf
They have been proven to be very effective at reducing droplets expelled from others mouths..
Yes, this is one of the reports which gives some strong and clear data around the effectiveness of facemasks, including sewn fabric masks.
There is a known but clever improvement of adding a nylon stocking layer.
The graphic at the top of page 7 gives a great summary and comparison.
Seven of the ten masks caught over 70% of droplets emitted from the wearer. In addition, all three of the commercial masks caught over 85%.
That is a lot better than NIL!!
So, once again a good percentage of people wearing masks, in high contact situations like public transport and shops, provides a huge reduction in surface contamination and also a significant lowering of aerosol transmission risk.
This layer of anti Covid-19 measures is especially powerful as it works just as well on asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people.
It works well in parallel with good Covid-19 hygiene.
It is invaluable for reducing transmission risk where normal social distancing is impracticable.
I'm sure there are downsides too and where extra research can fine tune optimal behaviours for Covid-19 phases. For example, how often should one change masks? How to clean or safely re-wear?
Originally Posted by kiwifrequentflyer View Post
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...567v1.full.pdf
They have been proven to be very effective at reducing droplets expelled from others mouths..
Yes, this is one of the reports which gives some strong and clear data around the effectiveness of facemasks, including sewn fabric masks.
There is a known but clever improvement of adding a nylon stocking layer.
The graphic at the top of page 7 gives a great summary and comparison.
Seven of the ten masks caught over 70% of droplets emitted from the wearer. In addition, all three of the commercial masks caught over 85%.
That is a lot better than NIL!!
So, once again a good percentage of people wearing masks, in high contact situations like public transport and shops, provides a huge reduction in surface contamination and also a significant lowering of aerosol transmission risk.
This layer of anti Covid-19 measures is especially powerful as it works just as well on asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people.
It works well in parallel with good Covid-19 hygiene.
It is invaluable for reducing transmission risk where normal social distancing is impracticable.
I'm sure there are downsides too and where extra research can fine tune optimal behaviours for Covid-19 phases. For example, how often should one change masks? How to clean or safely re-wear?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...3Dihub#ecomp10
Click on the .pdf tables.
Remember these are log charts so each drop of "1" is a 10x decline in viral load.
Also if 80% of people wear masks that collect 70% of droplets, then only 1 out of 4 possible viral droplets ends up in air and on surfaces compared to nobody wearing a mask.
If viral load is reduced by 4x, what will that do to the R value of the virus? How much will that lower case severity since new cases might pick up fewer virions and give their immune system a head start.
Last edited by FlyBitcoin; May 10, 2020 at 7:46 pm
May 10, 2020, 10:26 pm
#558
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,668
It is unbelievable that there are potentially presymptomatic people in the WH and are shading virus left and right, because they are not wearing masks. The WH is the only place in the US that is not following the precautions any other single indoors work establishment in the US is required to follow, lol, this is pure lunacy....
May 10, 2020, 10:28 pm
#559
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,969
I went to Costco today. They require masks and even hand them out, at least at this one, at the door if you didn't have one.
Then I went to the Kroger supermarket and Target. Most customers were NOT wearing masks like a week or two ago (most of the employees were). My state's count is still going up. This is not good.
Then I went to the Kroger supermarket and Target. Most customers were NOT wearing masks like a week or two ago (most of the employees were). My state's count is still going up. This is not good.
May 11, 2020, 7:22 am
#560
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
At last...
UK public advised to wear face masks under lockdown easing plan
Source: The Guardian
The public will be advised to wear face coverings in crowded places and wash their clothes regularly, as the government imposes “smarter controls” to limit the spread the coronavirus until a successful treatment or vaccine is found.
May 11, 2020, 9:20 am
#561
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
I went to Costco today. They require masks and even hand them out, at least at this one, at the door if you didn't have one.
Then I went to the Kroger supermarket and Target. Most customers were NOT wearing masks like a week or two ago (most of the employees were). My state's count is still going up. This is not good.
Then I went to the Kroger supermarket and Target. Most customers were NOT wearing masks like a week or two ago (most of the employees were). My state's count is still going up. This is not good.
May 11, 2020, 9:24 am
#562
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,355
May 11, 2020, 9:43 am
#563
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
May 11, 2020, 9:54 am
#564
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,355
May 11, 2020, 10:11 am
#565
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,514
All cleaning materials were out of stock in my local supermarket a few weeks ago but they are back now. The only thing that’s hard to get at present seems to be flour (and yeast). There’s no shortage of flour, according to reports, but they can’t keep up with packaging for retail sales.
May 11, 2020, 11:01 am
#566
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
Relevant articles on wearing masks.
Journal of the American Medical Association: Masks and Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Angel N. Desai, MD, MPH, David M. Aronoff
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2764955
”Primary benefits of wearing a mask include limiting the spread of the virus from someone who knows or does not know they have an infection to others. Masks also remind others to continue practicing physical distancing. However, nonmedical masks may not be effective in preventing infection for the person wearing them.“
Vanity Fair: If 80% of Americans Wore Masks, COVID-19 Infections Would Plummet, New Study Says
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...new-study-says
“It sounds too good to be true. But a compelling new study and computer model provide fresh evidence for a simple solution to help us emerge from this nightmarish lockdown. The formula? Always social distance in public and, most importantly, wear a mask.”
Journal of the American Medical Association: Masks and Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Angel N. Desai, MD, MPH, David M. Aronoff
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2764955
”Primary benefits of wearing a mask include limiting the spread of the virus from someone who knows or does not know they have an infection to others. Masks also remind others to continue practicing physical distancing. However, nonmedical masks may not be effective in preventing infection for the person wearing them.“
Vanity Fair: If 80% of Americans Wore Masks, COVID-19 Infections Would Plummet, New Study Says
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...new-study-says
“It sounds too good to be true. But a compelling new study and computer model provide fresh evidence for a simple solution to help us emerge from this nightmarish lockdown. The formula? Always social distance in public and, most importantly, wear a mask.”
May 11, 2020, 11:23 am
#567
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
Relevant articles on wearing masks.
Journal of the American Medical Association: Masks and Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Angel N. Desai, MD, MPH, David M. Aronoff
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2764955
However, nonmedical masks may not be effective in preventing infection for the person wearing them.“
Journal of the American Medical Association: Masks and Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Angel N. Desai, MD, MPH, David M. Aronoff
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2764955
However, nonmedical masks may not be effective in preventing infection for the person wearing them.“
Here is some data on various cloth masks. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
They can be quite effective, and WAY more effective than the N95's with the one-way valve in front.
Fit is very important. They need to cover fully and have two firm points of fixation. The ones that use ear loops may not be snug enough to prevent significant leak around edges.
And if your homemade mask is too thin (say 2-ply of thin cotton) then add a cut piece of paper towel in between those layers and discard at end of day.
Masks have been the standard of care in operating rooms and hospitals and around immunosuppressed patients for decades. If they didn't work then they would not be used.
The burden of proof is on those who wish to prove that masks DO NOT work to prevent viral spread.
May 11, 2020, 11:32 am
#568
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,142
In reviewing this thread from inception, it is very interesting that the tone of many posts went from "masks don't help" to "masks help." within the span of two+ months. Very, very interesting how society is so quick to change.
May 11, 2020, 12:02 pm
#569
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: RBKC
Programs: AA EXP and Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 3,850
Very much in the pro-mask camp now
May 11, 2020, 12:05 pm
#570
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,399
"May" is not a very scientific word. I'll give you some numbers....
Here is some data on various cloth masks. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
They can be quite effective, and WAY more effective than the N95's with the one-way valve in front.
Fit is very important. They need to cover fully and have two firm points of fixation. The ones that use ear loops may not be snug enough to prevent significant leak around edges.
And if your homemade mask is too thin (say 2-ply of thin cotton) then add a cut piece of paper towel in between those layers and discard at end of day.
Masks have been the standard of care in operating rooms and hospitals and around immunosuppressed patients for decades. If they didn't work then they would not be used.
The burden of proof is on those who wish to prove that masks DO NOT work to prevent viral spread.
Here is some data on various cloth masks. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252
They can be quite effective, and WAY more effective than the N95's with the one-way valve in front.
Fit is very important. They need to cover fully and have two firm points of fixation. The ones that use ear loops may not be snug enough to prevent significant leak around edges.
And if your homemade mask is too thin (say 2-ply of thin cotton) then add a cut piece of paper towel in between those layers and discard at end of day.
Masks have been the standard of care in operating rooms and hospitals and around immunosuppressed patients for decades. If they didn't work then they would not be used.
The burden of proof is on those who wish to prove that masks DO NOT work to prevent viral spread.
