This side of the atlantic, this is what the WT- price usually hovers around!

There's speculation that when CO unveils the new BF product with the 787 roll out that the 757's will not have the new BF seat. Thus, the 757's might offer a different hard product irrespective of all this E+ conjecture.

First, I don't see any reason not to include E+ on the 757. Why not? After all, there are plenty of 757's configured for E+ on various carriers. So what if its 3-3 and the section is small (small means removing fewer E- seats and thus less agita for LK and the gang).

Second, regarding your comment about any E+ on CO standing out from the competition, that's precisely what we've been discussing since this thread took on the issue of E+.

As I have written a few times before, I believe that CO's introduction of E+ should be as revolutionary regarding premium economy as the launch of BF was for international J.

CO should redefine the category as a catalyst to having E+ be a major money maker.

Every time I have flown UA on E+ (I have no status on UA) they have charged me. But CO's E+ would not be like UA's E+, it would be a highly differentiated product with more legroom, more comfortable seats (but otherwise configured in the row patterns as E- [3-3-3 on the triple 7's], all the technological bells & whistles such as full internet access, int'l powerports, etc.

There would every reason for customers to pay a hefty premium for CO's E+.

But why should any CEO want to make money if it adds a little slight extra complexity to the business model?

Then again, the actual hard information regarding the new BF seat has been very thin indeed. Something new is coming with the 787 but there has been precious little other detail of any kind.

Not to be pedantic about it, but that's not precisely accurate either.

Regarding BF, the three kinds of aircraft that are configured with this arrangement all have significantly different seats, with different widths and different recline angle.

In domestic FC, there are at least two different configurations and a number of different seat widths.

In CO economy, the 753's and the the 767 variants have 32" seat pitch while the other ships have the dreaded 31" pitch. Finally, there is also a variety of seat widths in this category depending on the a/c model.

Then, of course, there are the RJ's and the turboprops, where there is still more variation.

I realize that CO sells these products as categories, regardless of the differences, but the fact it they are there.

The only reason CO ought to consider E+ is as a serious money maker which is could absolutely be on its ultra long-haul routes, where most if not all of its competition offers standard economy seat pitch of 32 to 34 inches or a premium economy product or both.

CO and E+. Not going to happen in the near future. I think that if we were to see it, we'd hear about a lot of people wanting an upgrade into it or wanting free access for <insert your status here> elites. For it to be 'meaningful', it would have to be expensive...and hence forget upgrading. If think it the market were really there, the product would be there because CO loves money (and they should)

I'm not sure your analogy holds in all cases. There is definitely a market for true international F service to certain destinations out of New York (especially HKG, PEK, PVG, NRT, DEL, BOM, TLV & LON). Does CO offer an international F product? No.

There is definitely demand for more domestic F seats on Transcons out of EWR (especially to SFO and LAX). As frequent anecdotal evidence on this forum shows, CO Transcons are often sold out in F days if not weeks in advance on certain transcon flights. This has been the situation for years. Not until 739ERs come online next year will CO have taken any significant steps to meet the added demand.

There been quite a bit of back and forth about whether or not CO will offer an E+ section. My opinion is they won't, the reason is that Larry and the other powers that be don't think their E-cabin (thanks TWA FAN 1 for that one), is out of date or needs any improvement, so why offer a E+ that they will just have to upgrade elites to if they can't sell all of the seats for an additional premium.

Back to the 2008 One Pass changes. Scott said that this was the bad news, do you guys think this is it for the bad news or is there more to come? If this is all of the bad news, other than the priority standby and million mile recognition, what other positive changes do you expect to be announced for 08?

Now if they would just run these ex-CPH. And for sometime when I won't be traveling to SE Asia (with CO miles, in J, no less!)

My guess is that we have not seen the end of the increases in redemption rates. In particular, I would think that things like the lower levels for KL J will be gone, and that we will see the BF rates become the de facto for all/most J tickets. Maybe they will even call it an "enhancement" as it will clear up a lot confusion with the reward charts. Of course, this is idle speculation, but you asked for it.

As for benefits? My guess is that we could see some increased availability with the change in their mileage valuation, but I'm honestly not holding my breath - as tight as award availability is, I don't think a 5% increase in their internal valuation is going to suddenly unleash a torrent of free seats. But my guess is that their biggest enhancements will be things like priority standby for elites and award availability showing up for AF, which I would categorize as "system improvements." They will be nice to haves, but I don't think we will see anything that will dramatically change the value proposition of OnePass in a significantly positive way.

I don't think 2008 is going to be a year where you will see many changes at all to the program. The big changes of a few years ago (50% EQM, etc.) are still in place and CO seems to be happy with them.

Renard & Anglo: Of course CO loves money. But doesn't any business?

As Anglo points out there are many market segments CO has chosen not to fill, as in Anglo's international F example. There are other markets CO has chosen to underserve, such as domestic F.

E+ is simply another market segment they have decided not to fill. It's just that simple. Just as with the lack of international F or the undersupply of domestic FC, it is not clear if they are making or losing money by abandoning this demand.

All that is clear is that they are not filling demand.

Andy: That usage has been out there for some time, and I cannot take the credit for it.

I do not expect any more bad news - near term. And I believe the positive news may offset the bad news. Most of the bad news is on EasyPass - which most of us here do not use.

CO did say at the DO that it was looking at simplifying its reward charts. That might cause a few adjustments - but likely no significant changes.

What positive news? Sorting standby lists by Elite status? Offering a Million Miler program? These are all things that other airlines have been offering, for well over 10 years.

I wouldn't exactly call these positive changes. I'd call them "it's about d&mn time" changes.