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Originally Posted by Luvs2snowbordbut1kSEA
(Post 18077799)
Coming from the UA side- I am not impressed, either. I appreciate your points, but I think Gordon's biggest problem was mentoring a dude named Smisek and making him the heir...
At this point I would prefer Tilton! :( |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 18088415)
Actually he mentored a dude named Larry Kellner who carried on Gordon's legacy quite proudly and did a great job. The Board of Directors, unhappy with Larry's refusal to merge with UA, sent him packing and brought in a numbers guy who could focus on value alone, making the product and its customers secondary....hence our current situation.
And there are quite a few PMCO employees who are not pleased with this turn of events. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 18088415)
Actually he mentored a dude named Larry Kellner who carried on Gordon's legacy quite proudly and did a great job. The Board of Directors, unhappy with Larry's refusal to merge with UA, sent him packing and brought in a numbers guy who could focus on value alone, making the product and its customers secondary....hence our current situation.
- 'devalued' the Gordon-era CO? - was a 'numbers guy' solely concerned with the bottom line? - brought about an ethos of complacency that allowed the product to stagnate? - Presided over a difficult period of unprofitable quarters, cost cuts and employee concessions? - Instituted such crowd-pleasing measures as 50% EQM on non-CO.com low fares, F seat reductions and a host of service cuts? I liked Larry a lot, but let's not get carried away with the revisionist history just because we have a problem with UA under Smisek. |
Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 18092092)
I feel like I've heard this story before, but wasn't Larry the bean counter accountant who:
- 'devalued' the Gordon-era CO? - was a 'numbers guy' solely concerned with the bottom line? - brought about an ethos of complacency that allowed the product to stagnate? - Presided over a difficult period of unprofitable quarters, cost cuts and employee concessions? - Instituted such crowd-pleasing measures as 50% EQM on non-CO.com low fares, F seat reductions and a host of service cuts? I liked Larry a lot, but let's not get carried away with the revisionist history just because we have a problem with UA under Smisek. He was a numbers guy at first, but thanks to the hard work of one famous FTer, followed by the commitment shown by hundreds more at the various DO functions, he recognized that product was important, and so were customers. The F seats were put back, 50% EQM was moderated then eliminated and the product was doing just fine for the most part. The key point here is Larry's accessibility and willingness to listen to customers and discuss our concerns vs their business constraints, and give us an honest answer even when the answer was no. He also listened to employees who pushed back on other changes on our behalf (a number of nefarious program changes were hinted at, but never implemented). My concern about the current leadership is their focus on numbers and size, with the product becoming a take it or leave it after thought. That sort of institutional arrogance hit the TA industry first - after being told "we're the biggest airline in the world, where are your customers going to go?", we just took our customers and put them on Delta or directly on *A partners. Problem solved. I fear current leadership is only out to hit the numbers, collect the bonus, then head for the door, leaving employees and customers to decide if the broken parts that remain are worthwhile enough to salvage. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 18092535)
I don't think he 'devalued' the Gordon-era CO - remember Gordon himself was not perfect, recalling the pizza topping nonsense and the "if you need to be there tomorrow for a meeting and I say you're going to pay $2,500, then that's what you're going to pay" debacle - no airline exec is perfect.
He was a numbers guy at first, but thanks to the hard work of one famous FTer, followed by the commitment shown by hundreds more at the various DO functions, he recognized that product was important, and so were customers. The F seats were put back, 50% EQM was moderated then eliminated and the product was doing just fine for the most part. The key point here is Larry's accessibility and willingness to listen to customers and discuss our concerns vs their business constraints, and give us an honest answer even when the answer was no. He also listened to employees who pushed back on other changes on our behalf (a number of nefarious program changes were hinted at, but never implemented). My concern about the current leadership is their focus on numbers and size, with the product becoming a take it or leave it after thought. That sort of institutional arrogance hit the TA industry first - after being told "we're the biggest airline in the world, where are your customers going to go?", we just took our customers and put them on Delta or directly on *A partners. Problem solved. I fear current leadership is only out to hit the numbers, collect the bonus, then head for the door, leaving employees and customers to decide if the broken parts that remain are worthwhile enough to salvage. |
Originally Posted by dinoscool3
(Post 18077302)
The guy just said the FAs came around every 20min, so, at least on that flight, the guy was obsessive.
Should we have another conclusion that all the FAs disappear after meal service are CO FAs? At least I won't say that. |
Originally Posted by bocastephen
(Post 18092535)
I don't think he 'devalued' the Gordon-era CO - remember Gordon himself was not perfect, recalling the pizza topping nonsense and the "if you need to be there tomorrow for a meeting and I say you're going to pay $2,500, then that's what you're going to pay" debacle - no airline exec is perfect.
He was a numbers guy at first, but thanks to the hard work of one famous FTer, followed by the commitment shown by hundreds more at the various DO functions, he recognized that product was important, and so were customers. The F seats were put back, 50% EQM was moderated then eliminated and the product was doing just fine for the most part. The key point here is Larry's accessibility and willingness to listen to customers and discuss our concerns vs their business constraints, and give us an honest answer even when the answer was no. He also listened to employees who pushed back on other changes on our behalf (a number of nefarious program changes were hinted at, but never implemented). My concern about the current leadership is their focus on numbers and size, with the product becoming a take it or leave it after thought. That sort of institutional arrogance hit the TA industry first - after being told "we're the biggest airline in the world, where are your customers going to go?", we just took our customers and put them on Delta or directly on *A partners. Problem solved. I fear current leadership is only out to hit the numbers, collect the bonus, then head for the door, leaving employees and customers to decide if the broken parts that remain are worthwhile enough to salvage. I may be alone in my willingness to reserve judgment for a bit more time, given the enormity of the task they undertook... go ahead, brand me a 'new' UA apologist ;)! |
Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 18093388)
I may be alone in my willingness to reserve judgment for a bit more time, given the enormity of the task they undertook... go ahead, brand me a 'new' UA apologist ;)!
While I agree it's not yet done, and personally, I think it'll get worse before it gets better, it's not a bad idea to speak up if you see something trending in a direction you don't like. |
Originally Posted by EWR764
(Post 18093388)
You make some good points, but you even admit that the Kellner era started inauspiciously and only improved due to a concerted effort by frequent flyers (among others) to make their opinions known. To that end, it would be unfair to ignore the possibility that current leadership won't listen to customer opinion on the changes being implemented.
I may be alone in my willingness to reserve judgment for a bit more time, given the enormity of the task they undertook... go ahead, brand me a 'new' UA apologist ;)! |
Originally Posted by channa
(Post 18093458)
While I agree it's not yet done, and personally, I think it'll get worse before it gets better, it's not a bad idea to speak up if you see something trending in a direction you don't like.
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Originally Posted by pigx5
(Post 18093374)
Everyone does this is a UA Flyer?
Should we have another conclusion that all the FAs disappear after meal service are CO FAs? At least I won't say that. :confused: I didn't say all UA flyers are like that. You did say all CO FAs disappear after meal service. |
Originally Posted by joel67
(Post 18093629)
Where does one find out about these DOs, where you get to talk to the CEO? Was this just a Houston thing, or do they happen at UA Chicago as well?
At least Parker came to the US visit at SMD2, even though he knew the reception wouldn't be super positive (and it wasn't). I give him a lot of credit for that. |
Originally Posted by dinoscool3
(Post 18093686)
:confused:
I didn't say all UA flyers are like that. You did say all CO FAs disappear after meal service. |
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