Cbmaz

At the end of the day, after multiple years as both UA and CO Elite, most in a similar such situation will find that that UA's culture is lot more service- and customer-oriented, and CO's culture is more hyped.



[COLOR="Black"][/COLOR]Maybe this is a good thing, because what UA needs is a little more customer oriented "hype" from CO. and CO a good swift kick in th a$$ from UA to bring them back to their better customer service policies. Who knows, We might see this happen.

tuolumne

Swore off an airline years ago based on a few bad experiences, using outdated rhetoric to come here and post unsubstantiated dribble. Please, this is Flyertalk not airliners.net. When you fly on both airlines regularly, I'm sure more people other than extreme fanboys will take what you have to say more seriously.

So congratulations, speaking as if United doesn't have a substantial corporate culture is just absurd.


Sounds like you are seeing what you want to see. Tangibly, when you fly internationally in 1C on a UA 747, I'd love to see you come back here and complain, talking nonsense about UA being a virus that will "infect" CO. Yeah, United First, Economy Plus, PS, etc. are all "infections". So too is industry leading operations and financial performance. I am so sick and tired of reading nonsense like this, much less when you are basing your asinine logic on flights from "years ago" and one, count it, ONE flight in the last month. Please spare me.

channa

It's just part of the CO culture to boast about CO. The employees do it, the "fanboys" as you call them do it, the CEO does it. There doesn't have to be any sort of foundation, though there always has to be a reason for CO to be the best. Any weakness is treated as insignificant, any problem is the customer's fault, and so on.

You don't see this nonsense on the other airline boards. The other carriers seem to have a much healthier understanding of their competitive position in the marketplace. Then again, they don't have this CEO ego-stroking culture that CO does.

theblakefish

channa, you will have your wish in less than 24 hours here, buddy. For whatever reason, you make fun of and belittle Continental and their employees to no end, and all of your wishes and comments towards CO will be validated in less than 24-hours.

Congratulations!

Unlike others here, I don't believe that you are writing these things out of spite or just to be mean...they have a lot of truth in them. Some of the issues at CO do have a lot to do with the culture and the systems in-place at CO....I agree. You, however, seem to put the blame squarely at the feet of the rank-and-file employees by mocking The Most Professional Men and Women in the Industry to no end. It is exactly this "we're better than you" and "worst to first" mentality that brought CO back from the brink of Eastern Airlines-land and made CO into the airline that it is and was...whatever state that has developed into and the one that has less than 24 hours of life to go.

As for your comments above regarding the "CEO ego-stroking culture" at CO, I do think that this has a lot to do with their success and their failures...but it was CO to a "T." You obviously did not agree with it, and I most certainly do not agree with stroking the ego of the current CEO or stroking the ego of pretty much anyone in the management of any company except when they do an outstanding job (a-la Gordo), but you took some of your business to an airline that you believe does things better than CO with regard to elite-level employees and IRROPS, among other things. Maybe the mesh of the two will be better? Let's hope so...I will be curious to see what you think of the new United and how their employee ranks fit together in the coming years...something that I know you will share with us .

I do ask one thing of you: the CO people will be going into a new system, with new supervisors and a new culture. Please give them a break...they won't be The Most Professional men and Women in the Industry anymore...at least by name only @:-), so give them a break when they get together...they are working hard to do their best...and maybe the new name on the lapel of their shorts will help you to see what they are trying to do. :-:

channa

I agree with your comment for the most part, though I disagree with the assertion that I think that the blame falls on the rank and file. Most CO employees I've dealt with, even in problems, are genuinely friendly and want to help, but their hands are tied or they're afraid of getting in trouble.

The blame for this falls squarely with CO management. As for the "rah rah" effect, the rank and file often are not aware of CO's competitive position in the industry (or lack thereof), and many CO employees come off with an attitude that CO is so great. That attitude may have been justified a decade ago, even possibly 5+ years ago, but today, while CO still does some things well, CO is average or even below average in many areas. That's not the rank and file's fault, they really don't know. Management has failed to educate them in their competitive position, creating what I think is an unhealthy culture.

But back to the merer, the process will will be challenging for both sides -- not just the CO employees, but the UA employees as well.

If things change to be more like CO, the UA employees are not going to like the lack of empowerment and getting their hands tied, not to mention the reactions they get from customers accustomed to better service. UA employees may also really not like it if their CEO tells them they're great, and they're empowered, and then really doesn't empower them. Right now the UAL employees all hate Tilton and think Smisek is this savior. They have no idea what they're in for.

If things change to be more like UA, the CO employees will be surprised at how different it is, and how much more complex the operation is (think of the extra stuff a GA has to do to manage a flight with 3 cabins and E+, upsells, different upgrade mechanisms, etc., not to mention UA usually tends to do this stuff with fewer GAs).

Both employee groups should be supported in this merger as it will likely be challenging for both as things change, and we should support them both.

Global_Hi_Flyer

You don't have a friggin clue as to how much I fly on any particular carrier. So spare me the fanboy speech. Nowhere did *I* describe UA as "infecting" CO. If you're going to take personal slams at me at least get the facts right.

I live in the DC area. It's almost impossible to totally avoid UA when doing business travel, especially short notice and international travel. Yeah, I swore off UA for a period of time a number of years ago, and yeah, they aren't my #1 carrier (hence crediting miles to my CO Plat. status), but I do fly them enough to draw a reasonable comparison.

The only airline I actively avoid at this point is US for a multitude of reasons.

tuolumne

What on earth are you even talking about...United and Continental both have professionals around the system, end of story. This nonsense about "not being the best" any longer because of United is pathetic dribble and nothing more. Do you actually read what you write?

tuolumne

You have no clue how often I fly either, so spare me the obnoxious defense mechanisms kicking in. You posted what amounts to nonsense about hoping UA doesn't infect CO with inferior "spirit and quality". You dropped United because you had a bad experience years ago - that's your decision to make and you can do whatever you wish, but I am sick and tired of reading impartial nonsense that isn't substantiated. I've been lurking around these forums for half a decade and know exactly the type of fanboy rhetoric that gets tossed around nearly daily.

TWA Fan 1

toulumne: While I agree with you that many on this board are beside themselves with hysteria, I believe that theblakefish's use of the "most professional men and women" was meant somewhat sarcastically, in the sense that the phrase has become a deeply (and for some, annoying) ritualized part of Continental's marketing, repeated ad nauseum in the CEO greeting video.

Now that it won't be Continental any more, the phrase won't apply...unless I'm wrong I really think that's all that was meant...

channa

Well we won't know that. Right now the CO employees are the most professional men and women in the industry. We know that because Jeff says so. The UA employees are not, because their CEO has not said such a thing several hundred times a day on the video.

It's very possible that the new UA employees will become the most professional men and women in the industry, but we will first have to wait for Jeff's decree.

TWA Fan 1

Absolutely, and I think this is very likely.

In fact, if they really want to save money, they can just have Jeff say "United" and then just dub it right over where he says "Continental" in the video.

Would be a bit cheesy but a lot cheaper, and it would demonstrate senior management's commitment to "sharing the pain."

formeraa

Let's get the facts right here. AA didn't merge with TW. AA bought assets of TW out of bankruptcy. TW was run separately for a number of months. AA didn't "fire" the entire workforce. The tragic, unexpected events of 9/11, where AA lost many, brave patriotic crew members, intervened. How dare you try to make AA look like the bad guy in the face of the 9/11 tragedy!

Furthermore, i have many extended family members who work for CO HDQ in Houston. Most of them are totally stressed out over the possibility of losing their jobs or, at best, having to move their families to Chicago. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some issues when the cuts of the former CO employees in Houston are announced.

TWA Fan 1

I know that AA didn't merge with TW. That's why I used the scare quotes.

As far as AA being the bad guy, that one gave me a pretty good belly laugh.

Sure, the events of 9/11 precipitated AA's master plan, but it has since been revealed by AA itself that the main reason AA acquired TW was to remove as much capacity from the system as possible.

How do you remove capacity from the system without firing the employees?

And then there is the way the TW employees were treated, as a herd of sub-humans. Flight attendants with 50 years seniority glued to the bottom of the seniority list, and then furloughed with no hope of ever getting rehired.

A handful of TW pilots were able to essentially weasel their way into the AA machine, some even being able to hold onto a semblance of seniority. But that's about it. Everything else was eradicated, swept clean off the face of the earth.

Sure, TW was on its last legs anyway and AA was its "savior." It has been said that if TW had just liquidated the outcome would have been no better for TWA's people; actually, I think the way it worked out was the worst possible outcome and I do absolutely blame AA because that was their intention all along.

I compare it to PA's liquidation and how the Pan Am people actually fared better with DL than TWA's people with AA. To this day, there are still many PA people working DL's JFK station.

How many of TWA's 24,000 employees still work at AA? Maybe 300 to 500, if that (nobody even really knows anymore).

I just wish that Carty and the gang had been a little more honest about their intentions from the outset. Then again, honesty has never been in over-abundance in the AA corporate suites...

Steve GadFly

Tilton is certainly the most hated airline executive in the industry today.....possibly of all time. I think if he said that in the video, the employees wout take is a snarky jibe and not as a compliment..

TWA Fan 1

Of all time? He has a lot of competition in that department.

Let's name a few:

1. Frank Lorenzo
2. Carl Icahn
3. Leo F Mullin (Delta)
4. Gerald Grinstein
5. Robert Crandall (respected but feared)
6. Ben Baldanza (the outrageous CEO of Spirit Airlines)
7. Jean-Cyril Spinetta (Air France)
8. Willie Walsh (British Airways)
9. Frank Lorenzo (he's in there twice on purpose )