I dont know about their "secret internal documents" but UA has always claimed that E+ was in the black or profitable. They only lose revenue if the extra row of seats that would have been there instead could have been sold instead. Plus you have the benefits of elite loyality, which is pretty hard to quantify

Yes, but only because they have to for their shareholders, whether it clearly is or not. I'd say there is a lot of "fuzzy math" involved regardless of what numbers they believe.

Having said this, I think it could be revenue positive, but nothing public is clear whether it is or isn't.

I'd venture to guess that E+ is slowly becoming more and more profitable. They've been tweaking the amounts charged, and raising awareness. That's all on top of any loyalty it builds.

United's E+ is a nice product. I'm 6'1 and UA's E+ was the reason I decided to go with UA a few years ago over AA. Since then UA has got nearly 1 million miles of my business. When an upgrade does not clear it is nice to not have your knees hurting when the flight is over. It would really be nice to see CO introduce E+.

E+ is a loyalty builder and revenue winner
 

I can't speak for others, but I'm sure there are many UA elites who would agree with me. As an economy flyer, the number #1 reason that I fly United is E+. I could get the same RDM and EQM on US or CO. Sometimes the schedule is more convenient. But I will always go for E+. I am only 5'11" and a I think E+ makes a world of difference, especially on a transcon or international flight. It's only a few inches but it allows me to 1) Open and use my computer even if the seat in front is at full recline 2) cross and uncross my legs at will 3) access underseat storage without the use of exotic yoga poses or using my feet like hands.

Greg

Its hard enough already having 31 inches - I would probably faint if I could get up a few extra more.......

Everything has "fuzzy math." I'm sure CO's meals at mealtime justification is that it's a differentiator and gets more customers and/or customers to pay a premium, when it may or may not.

always thought this would work on CO
 

I"ve always thought that E+ would work on Continental.

However, one advantage UAL has is that large fleet of 70 - 90 seat jets where they can effectively offer this on a variety of routes.

I'm a proponent of only Plats getting the unlimited free upgrades, everyone else must play with miles or co-pays (reduced rates) offered at the 24 hour upgrade window....

The "free upgrade" would be into the E+ product.

Would make elites of all classes happier, generate front cabin revenue for Continental that they now give away, plus the opportunity to sell E+ (but not elite status) annual status to people that fly 4 - 6 times a year (as an example) that want comfort.

Elites stay happy, plats esp. enjoy benefits they should get (and I'm not one of those)...and people can have a more favorable flying experience with comfort IF THEY CHOOSE with money or flight miles.

Just my 2 cents.

Why would they go to the shareholders and say, "Hey, we just lost 300 million this quarter, but E+ is profitable!" Doesn't make sense to me. If E+ wasn't profitable, I don't think UA would have any reservations about taking it away from us. They're good at taking stuff away. (enhancing things)

With arch-rival Deltaworst offering the same upgrade scheme to its Elites, and UA changing its upgrade scheme to match eventual new owner Continental (and align with US), why in the world would CO change its upgrade scheme to something worse than its partners and the competition??

Only AA still uses certs with free upgrades for top tier - and now the pressure is on them to change.

Delta's old program was perfect (and why I was a member of it) - cert upgrades for Silvers/Golds and free upgrades for Plats confirmed AT TICKETING when you bought a K fare or higher.

Had CO changed their program years ago to match Delta's old one, I'd be a happy camper - but in a different (and more expensive) way, they've achieved a hybrid of the two with the at-ticketing upgrades on Y/B/M fares.

CO doesn't need to change their program at all - they need to work on improving the product itself. Boost service levels, offer a consistent experience to frequent fliers (especially during irrops), change the Y seats system-wide and introduce inflight WiFi. The FFP should be totally left alone for the time being.

I disagree. CO is banking way too much of the program on "unlimited, free upgrades," and is unable to deliver them reliably to their customers.

Fundamentally, something needs to give. If they're unable to deliver upgrades consistently, especially to top tiers, then E+ may be the happy medium to relieve the pressure on the system.

I wonder if CO Insider will weigh in on this one way or the other.

Of course, the whole point of the EUA's is that they're giving away inventory that they thought wouldn't sell, so you'd hope there wasn't too much first class revenue to be gained by taking away upgrades.

I'm not sure why all elite classes would be happier by having free upgrades taken away. E+ might offset that to a certain extent, it's obviously not an exact replacement. You'd certainly hear a bunch of, "It's insulting to have F go out with empty seats, while I (gold/silver) sit in the back."

Seems like the elite levels have already had a material drop in their upgrades.Fair enough, but E+ is an excellent fall back point should an upgrade not clear for any elite.

I suppose. There's been quite a bit of complaining, and that was really my point. CO maintains that the overall levels of upgrades have not gone down, though I have no idea how that works out across various elite levels.

If there is complaining now, let CO take it away as an official benefit and see how well people react then.

It absolutely is, but I was responding to the post that called for EUA's to be taken away as a gold/silver benefit (in exchange for E+) in an attempt for CO to generate more revenue from the sale of first class seats. That shouldn't generate more revenue, and it would certainly make a bunch of golds/silvers angry. The possibility for an upgrade is a material enough benefit of elite status that I could certainly see people changing programs as a result.