Removing F seats makes no sense at all. It would be far more expensive to implement, would eliminate the potential to sell higher-yield FC or M- B- Y-UP fares, and reduce, as you point out, the potential for EUA's, perhaps the single greatest factor in assuring elite loyalty.

Why eliminate 4 FC seats that seat either a customer who paid a high-yield M, B, or Y fare, or a valuable Plat, in favor of 6 Y seats which, as the "last seats" in Y, seat a bunch of kettles fying on deep discount fares?

Tuning into what I think could be the logic of the new leadership is a potential desire to right-size the F cabin to fill ONLY with paid F/Z/Y/B/M and reduce or eliminate the chance of EUAs on most routes. This is what they tried to do before, and luckily they reversed course.

Since everyone is so lovey-dovey over this E+ nonsense, I'd love to see a show of hands of how many members here would remain with CO if F was reduced and EUAs became essentially impossible - but you got your blessed E+.

Outside of certain routes and other routes on certain days/times, I believe EUA rates, specifically for Platinums, are currently just fine.

Here's a thought - if you want E+, go fly UA. If you want a good shot at an upgrade as a top tier Elite, stick with CO.

What you're describing can be achieved much more easily, cheaply, and effecitvely by adjusting the price points of F/Y/B/M than by removing FC seats.

Even if there is downward pressure to reduce these fares so that the current FC cabins are entirely filled with customers paying these fares, the yield would still be higher than the last six kettles who would be paying the lowest fares and sitting in the Y row that would be removed to allow for E+.

Well that all depends on how you look at it and account for it.

I've always said that IM will play a big role in this, as you knock off a handful of L seats on flights, meanwhile you make that up by upselling to E+ and generating goodwill and repeat business from Elites. Upselling is easy to account for, but the repeat biz is difficult.

CO has traditionally been very conservative in this line of thinking, so to them, it's a much harder sell to get them to believe that this could actually make them money.


And that's the risk that CO has right now. There are many Elites who are beginning to (or already have) written off EUA as a tangible benefit. At some point, getting E+ all the time is worth more than a shot at an upgrade. I disagree that it's even a "good" shot at an upgrade.

There are many Plats out there with sub-50% upgrade rates, many sub-40% or sub-30%. At some point, it becomes immaterial and if they take it away, it doesn't matter anymore.

In addition to the incremental up-sell revenue, remember there are ways to market E+ to elites that favors higher fares over lower fares, such as guaranteeing an aisle or window seat for a higher fare.

By implementing measures such as these, I think CO gains a valuable mechanism to increase the overall yield of its Y cabin.

It doesn't take E+ to place a premium price on guaranteed aisle/window seats. They could do that now, if they wanted.

Of course, and other airlines already do.

The point is that an aisle/window seat in E+ is worth a lot more than a windown seat in, say, a US cabin. So, therefore, it's worth a lot more than the nominal fee US charges for those seats.

Certain routes are always going to be a problem for EUAs - anything transcon, IAH/DEN, IAH-LAX/SFO, etc - even certain flights on otherwise easy upgrade routes are a problem.

I disagree that there is a systemic issue with upgrades for Plats, except for those who fly on routes/flights known to be difficult. My entire CO 'career' has been spent flying FLL to DCA, SEA, LAX/SNA, SJC/SFO, with the vast majority of my trips to DCA or SEA over the years. I'd say my lifetime EUA average since 2001 has been about 90%, although 99% of my current trips are Fri/Mon. and 99% of the DCA trips were Sat/Sun. I believe CO would like to see Plats at 75% or better, and I'd guess that a good number are within that range.

(emphasis mine)
I think it is very difficult for us to know whether there is a systemic issue with the EUA upgrade success for Plats since we don't have all the data (I'm not sure CO would have this data easily accessible either).

However, I can tell you anecdotally that I have a sub 40% upgrade success on 20k EQM domestic travel for the year. My upgrade success is even lower if you count the ExpressJets that have only a single cabin class.

When you combine the single cabin with the upgrade success I have have had (or lack there of) AND consider the unpleasant coach sitting options on CO jets, then I think you see why an E+ is so attractive to a frequent flyer such as myself.

In the interest of disclosure - I was a UA 1K for 3 years before taking my business to CO. What drove me initially was the horrendous on-time arrival %. However, since then, UA has now moved the rankings up to #1 on the list in terms of time arrival (unless I am mistaken).. quite shocking, really.

I'm starting to reconsider my options since Plat is upgraded on UA BELOW 1P (Premier Executive). This to me is unacceptable except for the fact that E+ will be waiting for my 6'2" frame.

What tier is Premier Executive on UA? Is that mid-tier? If so, then why aren't 1K/UGS being upgraded AFTER CO Golds on CO metal? Otherwise, CO Plats should be upgraded after 1K/UGS on UA metal.

What gives here?

Premier Exec is mid-tier, but it's also 50,000 - 99,999 EQM, whereas CO Plat is 75,000+ EQM.

It's possible that a Premier Exec flies more than a CO Plat, and many of them do. That's why on home metal, UA is prioritizing these folks higher than CO Plats.

It's the same rationale that CO uses by prioritizing CO Plats over 1K on CO metal. It's possible (and even likely) that many 1Ks fly more than CO Plats, but there are CO Plats who fly more than 1Ks. So on home metal, CO Plats get priority there.

Heck, a couple years ago, I had a US op-up rate that exceeded my CO Plat upgrade rate. This was as UA*G, and no official upgrade privileges on US.

These are some of my favorites reads on this site...the back and forth over EUA %'s...I tend to agree that the EUA seems to be getting more difficult for alot of reasons, particularly, IMO, the Y/B/M-up...you guys don't really talk about the impact of this as much. The M-up, for me, it is the MOST important reason to be Plat. I assume any IAH-EWR, for instance, is filled with these types, no? Expecting an EUA is unreasonable, no? I have flown a bunch of off peak flights this year and have gotten EUA's 11/12 - leisure times, of course. As a Plat, I book an M if I need to sit up front during, what I consider to be, crowded hours...anyway, my two cents...I book far enough in advance to sit in a reclining exit row aisle anyway - Conti E+...life is good for me on Continental...