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Current China Entry policy

Current China Entry policy

Old May 16, 2020, 9:31 am
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
HK distance from source 0 miles
deaths 4
US distance from source 7200 miles
deaths 86,000

mind boggling
HK is so small and has only 7 million inhabitants compared to the US which is big and has 330 million inhabitants, and HKG has fewer ports of entry which makes a lockdown much easier.
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Old May 16, 2020, 9:32 am
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Is transit travel at Shanghai (PVG) still possible?
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Old May 16, 2020, 9:53 am
  #78  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Border quarantines work. Of course easier to enforce if your territory is an island. Like Taiwan and Hawaii. I recall In China villages set up their own citizen enforced secure areas. Never heard of that in US...I suppose if your roads are private not a problem.

Hawaii has only reported 634 cases, according to Johns Hopkins University's tracker, making it the state with the smallest outbreak aside from Alaska.
Two Indian tribes have set up road blockades at the entrances to their reservation land in North/South Dakota. A state governor has been trying to prevent them from doing this. This was a couple days ago and I haven't heard whether the courts have resolved the issue.

BTW, ND is a state that imposes fourteen day mandatory self quarantines (I don't know the details or how they're enforced) on outsiders entering from certain other states.
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Old May 16, 2020, 1:04 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Two Indian tribes have set up road blockades at the entrances to their reservation land in North/South Dakota. A state governor has been trying to prevent them from doing this. This was a couple days ago and I haven't heard whether the courts have resolved the issue.

BTW, ND is a state that imposes fourteen day mandatory self quarantines (I don't know the details or how they're enforced) on outsiders entering from certain other states.


Can US citizens restrict access on public roads if they own the adjacent properties? In China villages set up blockades and govt owns all the land China.
They have more leverage in this case. Territorial sovereignty: Tribal authority on Indian land is organic and is not granted by the states in which Indian lands are located.

“This is our home and this is our land,” Frazier said. “One does not come into somebody’s house and tell them how to live.”
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Old May 16, 2020, 2:30 pm
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Can US citizens restrict access on public roads if they own the adjacent properties? In China villages set up blockades and govt owns all the land China.
They have more leverage in this case. Territorial sovereignty: Tribal authority on Indian land is organic and is not granted by the states in which Indian lands are located.

“This is our home and this is our land,” Frazier said. “One does not come into somebody’s house and tell them how to live.”
IANAL but I would assume that public roads are public property throughout the USA, but of course there can be private roads on private land, often posted as no trespassing, in addition to gated communities. Sometimes public access or access by another property owner is part of a property right when land is sold. Sometimes a public street can be blocked, for example if there's a permit for a block party or sometimes for private construction work, so I don't know whether some jurisdiction (as opposed to an individual without a permit for a specific purpose) could block access. OTOH, a property owner can be obligated to remove snow and maintain public sidewalks in good condition in front of one's own property as well as maintaining the strip of grass some places have between the sidewalk and the street. I don't know who owns the land under the sidewalk and suspect the answer depends on the state or locality.

Another interesting example is whether beaches are public or private property and whether access must be allowed. For example, I know of small towns on the (USA) coast that don't like the idea of public beach access, so they just post the entire place with no parking signs for no apparent reason and property owners don't permit outsiders to walk or bike through their land to get to the beach.
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Old May 16, 2020, 3:22 pm
  #81  
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Have not yet heard of any "escape communities/protective sequestration" here during the covid-19 crisis. Maybe China has stats on that?

This govt report addresses that issue.
http://chm.med.umich.edu/wp-content/...nza-Report.pdf

“These communities basically shut themselves down,” explains Howard Markel, an epidemiological historian at the University of Michigan who was one of the authors of the study. “No one came in and no one came out. Schools were closed and there were no public gatherings. We came up with the term ‘protective sequestration’, where a defined and healthy group of people are shielded from the risk of infection from outsiders.”
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...he-spanish-flu


In late 1918 the world’s greatest killer – Spanish flu – roared towards Gunnison, a mountain town in Colorado.

What happened next is instructive amid a new global health emergency a century later as the world struggles react to the emergence of a new coronavirus. Gunnison declared a “quarantine against all the world”. It erected barricades, sequestered visitors, arrested violators, closed schools and churches and banned parties and street gatherings, a de facto lockdown that lasted four months.

It worked. Gunnison emerged from the pandemic’s first two waves – by far the deadliest - without a single case. It was one of a handful of so-called “escape communities” that researchers have analysed for insights into containing the apparently uncontainable.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...h-flu-pandemic
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Old May 17, 2020, 9:15 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
HK distance from source 0 miles
deaths 4
US distance from source 7200 miles
deaths 86,000

mind boggling
As much as I hate the US government, your posts have gotten ridiculous. HK borders Wuhan now? Smoking helps prevent coronavirus?

Do you have a direct line with The Sun?
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Old May 18, 2020, 5:00 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Granite64
Is transit travel at Shanghai (PVG) still possible?
Domestic transit? Sure. International, no unless you’re a citizen.
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Old May 18, 2020, 10:09 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Granite64
HK is so small and has only 7 million inhabitants compared to the US which is big and has 330 million inhabitants, and HKG has fewer ports of entry which makes a lockdown much easier.
Takes less than an hour to shutdown all air travel. It is possible to "hermetically seal" a country's borders in short order.

8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 93 and 99. The aircraft enters the tower intact.
9:42: Senior FAA traffic manager Ben Sliney issues the execution order for SCATANA grounding all air traffic over the United States and diverting any incoming international traffic to alternate destinations.
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Old May 18, 2020, 11:42 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Takes less than an hour to shutdown all air travel. It is possible to "hermetically seal" a country's borders in short order.

8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 93 and 99. The aircraft enters the tower intact.
9:42: Senior FAA traffic manager Ben Sliney issues the execution order for SCATANA grounding all air traffic over the United States and diverting any incoming international traffic to alternate destinations.

Yes, because two hijacked airliners flying into a building in the heart of NYC (and two other airliners hijacked at the same time, one going for the White House and other one for the Pentagon!!) are comparable situations....
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Old May 18, 2020, 12:09 pm
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Originally Posted by Granite64
Yes, because two hijacked airliners flying into a building in the heart of NYC (and two other airliners hijacked at the same time, one going for the White House and other one for the Pentagon!!) are comparable situations....
I agree with heads of state, battling this disease is akin to fighting a war.

Xi declared a "people's war" to fight this invisible enemy by mobilizing the force of the whole country. (Xinhua) march 10 Huoshenshan Hospital in Wuhan

The fight to slow the spread of COVID-19 is “our big war,” Trump said Thursday. “It’s a medical war. We have to win this war. It’s very important.” (Time)
“No matter where you look, this is something—it’s an invisible enemy.”march 16 coronavirus task force press conference

Who first used the metaphor "invisible enemy"? Possibly chinese media.

Last edited by anacapamalibu; May 18, 2020 at 12:28 pm
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Old May 18, 2020, 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
I agree with heads of state, battling this disease is akin to fighting a war.

Xi declared a "people's war" to fight this invisible enemy by mobilizing the force of the whole country. (Xinhua) march 10 Huoshenshan Hospital in Wuhan

The fight to slow the spread of COVID-19 is “our big war,” Trump said Thursday. “It’s a medical war. We have to win this war. It’s very important.” (Time)
“No matter where you look, this is something—it’s an invisible enemy.”march 16 coronavirus task force press conference

Who first used the metaphor "invisible enemy"? Possibly chinese media.
I love China and used to live there, but i'm really done with Xi and the Chinese media.

They call it a war because they use it to spread China's influence in the world, first they mess up and then they step up like a 'saviour', 'donating face masks'. I'm not buying it, and no one should.
God know for how long that virus has been spreading in China? No one knows because the CCP kept it quiet, just like the Soviets did when Chernobyl happened; saving face is what counts.

Everyone gets mad at Trump for calling it the Chinese virus, but the man is right.
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Last edited by Granite64; May 20, 2020 at 4:45 am
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Old May 18, 2020, 2:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Granite64
No one knows because the CCP kept it quiet
See right there, you put blame where it's due.

Originally Posted by Granite64
Everyone gets mad at Trump for calling it the Chinese virus, but the man is right.
...and right there, you did not. That somehow implies that an entire country, or ethnic group, was responsible for covering up the existence of the virus in the first few weeks, and it was not. It was a single political party, NOT any of the above things.

Originally Posted by anacapamalibu
Takes less than an hour to shutdown all air travel. It is possible to "hermetically seal" a country's borders in short order.

8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 93 and 99. The aircraft enters the tower intact.
9:42: Senior FAA traffic manager Ben Sliney issues the execution order for SCATANA grounding all air traffic over the United States and diverting any incoming international traffic to alternate destinations.
Ground borders are a bit more of a problem, because you can't just tell ATC to not allow pilots to land.

But sealing borders does absolutely nothing if you miss even one case. You're still on the wrong side of exponential growth if you don't follow it up with aggressive testing and isolation/quarantine requirements for people who test positive or come into contact with people who test positive. And despite China talking out of both sides of its mouth (complaining about other countries banning people from China while simultaneously restricting travel within its borders), its ACTIONS show that they're taking this virus seriously, and they still have mandatory quarantine requirements on entry for individuals returning from abroad. The US on the other hand, did this half assed job where they stopped travel from China, except they didn't really because US citizens and LPRs could still enter, and they didn't really have strict quarantine requirements either, AND they never really tested aggressively. Which makes sealing the border pointless, if you're not going to do anything useful with the time you buy from doing it.

Last edited by STS-134; May 18, 2020 at 2:35 pm
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Old May 18, 2020, 2:47 pm
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Originally Posted by STS-134


...and right there, you did not. That somehow implies that an entire country, or ethnic group, was responsible for covering up the existence of the virus in the first few weeks, and it was not. It was a single political party, NOT any of the above things.


Of course I know that, I don't blame Chinese people (even though they are the ones selling wild animals) and I should have formulated that in a different way.
However the virus originated in China and was able to spread because of the CCP, and there is no doubt that this tactic of calling it the 'Chinese virus' is part of a wider campaign against China.
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Old May 18, 2020, 4:02 pm
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Originally Posted by STS-134
The US on the other hand, did this half assed job where they stopped travel from China, except they didn't really because US citizens and LPRs could still enter, and they didn't really have strict quarantine requirements either, AND they never really tested aggressively. Which makes sealing the border pointless, if you're not going to do anything useful with the time you buy from doing it.
Yes the repatriation would have compromised sealing of the border...unless you quarantined 89,043 Americans on 926 flights from 132 countries and territories,
I assume the repatriated were subject to a 14 day quarantine of some sort.



Last edited by anacapamalibu; May 18, 2020 at 4:17 pm
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