the pollution thread
Jan 13, 2013 | 2:30 pm
#136
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
Programs: various
Posts: 6,710
Yes, and no. THere will be a large excess of death this week due to the pollution, and that is a function of large population in Beijing and the very vulnerable people succumbing. However, crunching the numbers (someone else did, but I vagely trust it), even breathing the air the last 24hrs was no 'worse' than smoking 3-5 cigarettes -- which rather puts it all into perspective.
People who go clubbing in Beijing every week probably get exposed to much worse air a month on average than the last few days.
tb
People who go clubbing in Beijing every week probably get exposed to much worse air a month on average than the last few days.
tb
The handwriting is on the wall.
Jan 13, 2013 | 5:25 pm
#138
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: PEK & MKE
Programs: Amex-gold, Hainan-gold, Mrt-LT Titanium
Posts: 1,534
mid feb
The festive CNY chaos starts on Feb. 10th & the nightly aroma of fireworks will continue to Lantern day, Feb. 24th. A good mask might be a good idea for those evenings when the weather is uncooperative. BJ is abet weird during the week of CNY... past years CNY posts have more details. Many foreigners leave China during CNY week.
Jan 14, 2013 | 6:14 am
#139
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bay Area
Programs: BA - Blue
Posts: 4,724
Maybe so if you look only at the short-term. But I have been in Beijing for 10+ years. I have coronary artery disease and a bypass surgery already under my belt...and I'm not even qualified to be a Senior Citizen yet! After many years of not really having the bad air affect me in any noticeable way on a day-to-day basis, since 2010, I can honestly say it does. You can see why I'm not eager to return and in fact, have decided to not return to Beijing as home base. Only short visits if necessarily. If I'm to continue on in China, it will have to be at a different location....and there are relatively few places one can base out of that have both a) decent air and b) work.
The handwriting is on the wall.
The handwriting is on the wall.
Without doubt, air pollution is a major risk factor for coronary heart disease -- but nowhere near as much as smoking. Over a large population, a small, but universally applied risk results in many excess events especially given that CHD is not uncommon.
tb
Jan 14, 2013 | 7:07 am
#140
Original Poster
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 46,422
But, I'm hoping to move down south (Shenzhen or Xiamen) during the course of the next year.
Jan 14, 2013 | 8:13 am
#141
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: LH, DL
Posts: 1,757
Jan 14, 2013 | 10:06 am
#142
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southeast USA
Programs: various
Posts: 6,710
HKG? You want us to move to an airport? 
Funning aside, HK air isn't all that great, too much imported pollution from the Pearl River Delta. The only larger Chinese cities that I've been in that seem to have decent air are Dalian, Qingdao, and Xiamen. Xiamen I particularly like since in ways it reminds me of my original home (coastal Florida) and doesn't have a real winter. Inland: Kunming has pretty decent air. So, Xiamen or Kunming would be my picks, and maybe not just based on health/air quality but on general liveability dimensions and easy access to places outside China. Shanghai I could deal with but I'd put a time limit of 2 years on it.
Funning aside, HK air isn't all that great, too much imported pollution from the Pearl River Delta. The only larger Chinese cities that I've been in that seem to have decent air are Dalian, Qingdao, and Xiamen. Xiamen I particularly like since in ways it reminds me of my original home (coastal Florida) and doesn't have a real winter. Inland: Kunming has pretty decent air. So, Xiamen or Kunming would be my picks, and maybe not just based on health/air quality but on general liveability dimensions and easy access to places outside China. Shanghai I could deal with but I'd put a time limit of 2 years on it.
Jan 14, 2013 | 5:15 pm
#143
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: LH, DL
Posts: 1,757
You're right it isn't THAT great here in HKG, but we think "200" is uber uber high, and SH beats that mark quite a lot, if I'm not mistaken. I think estimates are that 50% of HK's pollution is "imported" - the HK government seems to be reluctant to take local measures to improve things itself though (bus and shipping emission standards etc).
Plus we have great weather, beaches, low taxes, connectivity to the world, easy visa process etc etc etc...
- oh and the food is safe
Plus we have great weather, beaches, low taxes, connectivity to the world, easy visa process etc etc etc...
- oh and the food is safe
Jan 14, 2013 | 6:56 pm
#144
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SIN, and often HND
Programs: SQ TPP
Posts: 3,238
I too used to think the pollution in HKG gets pretty gross, but after 18mths in Beijing - yikes. I can't imagine what the other 2nd/3rd tier industrial cities must be like.
Jan 14, 2013 | 8:33 pm
#145
Ambassador: China
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Malibu Inferno Ground Zero
Programs: UA AA CO
Posts: 4,836
Jan 15, 2013 | 12:42 am
#146
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 186
The following blog written by a doctor who lives in Beijing talks about pollution and health:
http://www.myhealthbeijing.com/categ...ess/pollution/
I think there are some things you can do to minimise the health impacts:
1. Stay indoors where possible and buy an air cleaning machine with a HEPA filter.
2. When outdoors wear a mask that can filter out fine particles (see http://www.myhealthbeijing.com/2010/...hich-are-best/)
The site above has an article suggesting that even on the worst days, breathing in the air is equivalent to smoking less than one cigarette, which just shows how horribly bad for the health smoking is: http://www.myhealthbeijing.com/2011/...disappointing/
http://www.myhealthbeijing.com/categ...ess/pollution/
I think there are some things you can do to minimise the health impacts:
1. Stay indoors where possible and buy an air cleaning machine with a HEPA filter.
2. When outdoors wear a mask that can filter out fine particles (see http://www.myhealthbeijing.com/2010/...hich-are-best/)
The site above has an article suggesting that even on the worst days, breathing in the air is equivalent to smoking less than one cigarette, which just shows how horribly bad for the health smoking is: http://www.myhealthbeijing.com/2011/...disappointing/
Jan 15, 2013 | 1:30 am
#147
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Osaka, Shenzhen, NYC
Posts: 79
Beijing is pretty terrible in both air and water pollution. The running joke is that if you are a decently high up government official you would have a water filtration system installed in your house (actually true).
Anyway I was in Shanghai the past week and the air was surprisingly ok. Normally when I get off the place I notice the air quality immediately. Maybe it is because I haven't been to Shanghai in awhile.
p.s. Anyone know if fog has anything to do with pollution? Getting a crazy amount of it right now and caused me to be stuck in Wuxi for a day due to highway closing (at least the InterContinental was nice in Wuxi).
Anyway I was in Shanghai the past week and the air was surprisingly ok. Normally when I get off the place I notice the air quality immediately. Maybe it is because I haven't been to Shanghai in awhile.
p.s. Anyone know if fog has anything to do with pollution? Getting a crazy amount of it right now and caused me to be stuck in Wuxi for a day due to highway closing (at least the InterContinental was nice in Wuxi).
Jan 15, 2013 | 4:08 am
#148
Original Poster
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 46,422
Beijing is pretty terrible in both air and water pollution. The running joke is that if you are a decently high up government official you would have a water filtration system installed in your house (actually true).
Anyway I was in Shanghai the past week and the air was surprisingly ok. Normally when I get off the place I notice the air quality immediately. Maybe it is because I haven't been to Shanghai in awhile.
p.s. Anyone know if fog has anything to do with pollution? Getting a crazy amount of it right now and caused me to be stuck in Wuxi for a day due to highway closing (at least the InterContinental was nice in Wuxi).
Anyway I was in Shanghai the past week and the air was surprisingly ok. Normally when I get off the place I notice the air quality immediately. Maybe it is because I haven't been to Shanghai in awhile.
p.s. Anyone know if fog has anything to do with pollution? Getting a crazy amount of it right now and caused me to be stuck in Wuxi for a day due to highway closing (at least the InterContinental was nice in Wuxi).
Yes, fog (stagnant air) does exacerbate air quality problems.
Shanghai might seem fine by comparison, but I can't recall the last time I've seen stars here.
Jan 15, 2013 | 1:47 pm
#149
formerly known as Tad's Broiled Steaks
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,424
You're right it isn't THAT great here in HKG, but we think "200" is uber uber high, and SH beats that mark quite a lot, if I'm not mistaken. I think estimates are that 50% of HK's pollution is "imported" - the HK government seems to be reluctant to take local measures to improve things itself though (bus and shipping emission standards etc).
Plus we have great weather, beaches, low taxes, connectivity to the world, easy visa process etc etc etc... - oh and the food is safe
Plus we have great weather, beaches, low taxes, connectivity to the world, easy visa process etc etc etc...
- oh and the food is safeRegarding Beijing's air pollution, it's even more surreal with sunglasses on. Strolling by Jianguomen Waidajie, at least the parts with the random neon lights (the ones that look like incomplete arches)- might as well be filming a sequel to Blade Runner.
Comparatively speaking (but still not exactly healthy), Shenzhen never seemed that bad, at least in the SEZ. But wandering through parts of Longgang, Baoan or Guangming indeed reveals another world.
Jan 15, 2013 | 7:21 pm
#150
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: MSP
Programs: LH, DL
Posts: 1,757
Spoken like someone who hasn't explored mainland-style cuisine options in HK (though there is a lack of Xinjiang food here -
)http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...am-minter.html
Food safety in the mainland is no joke- but you're more than welcome to play around with the risks if you desire to do so