Behavior Detection: Article
Jul 19, 2009 | 9:34 pm
#106
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Ron, earlier you referred to a stack of documentation you had on hand to back up your claims. Now you can't prove the BDO approach works? 
Jul 19, 2009 | 9:40 pm
#107
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Jul 19, 2009 | 11:14 pm
#108
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Not Nazi, but Gestapo.
All that you say is true. So tell, TSRon, what was your purpose in posting the article?
However, there is one thing that I do know, having spent enough time in academe: the "studies" as described in the article are bad science. Example: Suppose he found that, whenever a lie was told, people blinked and either inhaled or exhaled. Ipso facto, anyone who blinks and breathes is lying. Do you understand why such a study is meaningless? No control group.
Again, you can put forth all the different numbers you like, but you cannot prove them one way or the other. And neither can I.
As far as the BDO process, you and halls have belief's. Nothing more. The process has not been challenged in court yet, but I'm sure it will. Hey, if you truly are a lawyer, maybe it will be you. But until that happens, the BDO process serves as reasonable belief for additional administrative screening. You can believe otherwise as much as you like, but you can only prove it in a court. Trying to prove it here is like a pastor preaching to the choir. Not an unbiased mind in the lot.
As far as the BDO process, you and halls have belief's. Nothing more. The process has not been challenged in court yet, but I'm sure it will. Hey, if you truly are a lawyer, maybe it will be you. But until that happens, the BDO process serves as reasonable belief for additional administrative screening. You can believe otherwise as much as you like, but you can only prove it in a court. Trying to prove it here is like a pastor preaching to the choir. Not an unbiased mind in the lot.
However, there is one thing that I do know, having spent enough time in academe: the "studies" as described in the article are bad science. Example: Suppose he found that, whenever a lie was told, people blinked and either inhaled or exhaled. Ipso facto, anyone who blinks and breathes is lying. Do you understand why such a study is meaningless? No control group.
Jul 20, 2009 | 1:59 am
#109
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The BD approach of the TSA is nothing but the operationalization of a faith-based initiative -- it's based on blind belief and the TSA are selling their manufactured faith like a charlatan and some customers are buying what the charlatans are selling. The TSA and snake-oil salesmen of yesteryear have much in common: selling expensive foolishness to the gullible.
Jul 20, 2009 | 4:47 am
#110
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This is a typical Ron response when the facts don't back up his claims. Unless you can back up the claims with actual data that we can review than you are nothing more than a troll. If the TSA actually found more guns than listed on their website they would post it to prove their claims of protecting the public.
Last edited by magellan315; Jul 20, 2009 at 5:42 am
Jul 20, 2009 | 5:46 am
#111
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What percentage of people hassled by BDOs posed a threat to aviation? I'll even let you include in that statistic, such dire and heinous threats as possession of pot, unpaid parking tickets, and having $4,783 in your possession.
Is it 10%? 1%? I'm betting it's close to .01% and, if you remove pot smokers, illegal parkers and well-paid young people, that number drops to 0.
Is it 10%? 1%? I'm betting it's close to .01% and, if you remove pot smokers, illegal parkers and well-paid young people, that number drops to 0.
Fewer than 1% of airline passengers singled out at airports
for suspicious behavior are arrested, Transportation Security Administration figures show, raising complaints that too many innocent people are stopped.
A TSA program launched in early 2006 that looks for terrorists using a controversial surveillance method has led to more than 160,000 people in airports receiving scrutiny, such as a pat-down search or a brief interview. That has resulted in 1,266 arrests, often on charges of carrying drugs or fake IDs, the TSA said.
A TSA program launched in early 2006 that looks for terrorists using a controversial surveillance method has led to more than 160,000 people in airports receiving scrutiny, such as a pat-down search or a brief interview. That has resulted in 1,266 arrests, often on charges of carrying drugs or fake IDs, the TSA said.
60 Minutes asked TSA if any of the 180,000 passengers stopped by the behavior officers for an interview turned out to be a terrorist. They wouldn't tell us, but congressional sources said no.
Jul 20, 2009 | 6:06 am
#112
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Originally Posted by TSORon
TSO's around the country catch on the average 40 guns on the checkpoint per week.
The proof is in the pudding, but all you can see is a box.
The proof is in the pudding, but all you can see is a box.
Originally Posted by magellan315
.....Unless you can back up the claims with actual data that we can review....... If the TSA actually found more guns than listed on their website they would post it to prove their claims of protecting the public.
Jul 20, 2009 | 6:55 am
#113
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Prove it. Break out your printer and hook it up to your crystal ball and get us a print out. IOW, even you cannot tell us what is in the minds of the individuals who bring these guns and other weapons to the airport. You have closed your mind to the possibility, and therefore cannot see past your own perception. Any number I put out there is just as plausible as yours, because I cant prove it either. I just haven't closed my mind to the possibilities.
Jul 20, 2009 | 9:37 am
#114
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well glory be....
maybe TSORon is right about those numbers that he can't tell us about after all
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12093377-post281.html
maybe TSORon is right about those numbers that he can't tell us about after all
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12093377-post281.html
Jul 20, 2009 | 9:52 am
#115
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well glory be....
maybe TSORon is right about those numbers that he can't tell us about after all
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12093377-post281.html
maybe TSORon is right about those numbers that he can't tell us about after all
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12093377-post281.html
Come on, TSA, you've got to try harder than that...
Jul 20, 2009 | 1:41 pm
#116
Join Date: Mar 2006
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The program gains thousands of hours of experience every day. Kinesic gurus like Joe Navarro, Stan Walters, and Paul Ekman have already completed the research and data collection. They have put it together in a nice package for others to use. It's actually a big data mining collection so that someone up the food chain might put some pieces of the puzzle together and make a big bust. Thats all it is, but make of it what you will.
Last edited by tsadude1; Jul 20, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Jul 20, 2009 | 8:39 pm
#118
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Ah, you too can now be a Behavior Detection Micro-Expression Analyzer Officer.
Learn all the secrets in just a few hours of training.
(Shhhhh. This is all SSI!)
Ekman has published a teaser of his first few chapters online to encourage sales of his CD, apparently. Looks like TSA bought a few.
http://www.face-and-emotion.com/data...anual/TOC.html
http://www.face-and-emotion.com/data...vGuideTOC.html
On the plus side, we can all practice our newly learned microexpressions for fun and amusement the next time we see a clutch of the latest freshman class of BDOs excitedly wiggling their fingers at each other on the jetway.
Learn all the secrets in just a few hours of training.
(Shhhhh. This is all SSI!)
Ekman has published a teaser of his first few chapters online to encourage sales of his CD, apparently. Looks like TSA bought a few.
http://www.face-and-emotion.com/data...anual/TOC.html
http://www.face-and-emotion.com/data...vGuideTOC.html
On the plus side, we can all practice our newly learned microexpressions for fun and amusement the next time we see a clutch of the latest freshman class of BDOs excitedly wiggling their fingers at each other on the jetway.
The Manual
On CD ROM
HTML Demonstration Version
by
Paul Ekman, Ph.D.
Wallace V. Friesen, Ph.D.
Joseph C. Hager, Ph.D.
On CD ROM
HTML Demonstration Version
by
Paul Ekman, Ph.D.
Wallace V. Friesen, Ph.D.
Joseph C. Hager, Ph.D.
Jul 21, 2009 | 5:31 am
#119
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Even with a stack of documentation a mile high some people are going to have your attitude about it. Its a no win situation for the TSA with you folks.
To much beer, right?
Jul 21, 2009 | 5:33 am
#120
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I didnt say that either. What I am saying is that I get to see the program actually working every day. I get to talk to the BDO's about their job and what they do. I also get to read the daily reports from headquarters about BDO actions and catches. It does not make me a believer, but it does give me reason to believe that there is more to this program than the smoke and mirrors some here believe.