Don't feel bad, Spotnik. When we in the interagency question DHS and TSA about the underlying basis for their latest proposed folly, they can't explain it to us either.

That TSA frontline employees don't understand what management expects of them is yet further proof of the gross mismanagement of TSA being inflicted on the general public.

IMO I don't think you're missing something. The irony is that the answers you are giving are 10x clearer than the official answers from TSA. But passengers (and many TSOs it seems) are tired and frustrated and need some place to vent and some thing to vent at. If Hawley were to start holding open forums, I'm sure a lot of us would transfer our outrage to those.

Official TSA seems to think a secret set of rules with planned-inconsistency as the excuse for anything (including abuses) will thwart terrorists and ignores the idea that making the populace follow secret rules (or be subject to secret blacklists) is inconsistent with even a somewhat-free society. One of two things will happen eventually: either some combination of the right plaintiff and the right judges will put a stop to it, or the USA will descend to a depth of police/security-state from which we will not ascend.

Among other things regarding openness and transparency, I believe TSA should create an evolving permitted items list (with big disclaimers on it saying that the list is not all-inclusive and should not be construed to prohibit unlisted items). Every time one of these ridiculous confiscations of a permitted item happens (rechargeable battery pack, leather bookmark, etc.) the item would be added to the permitted-items list and any TSO who confiscated one of these items would be immediately terminated.

I also think TSA should make a "promise to passengers" along the lines of, "We will never prohibit laptops or personal electronics, never prohibit privately-owned clothing, etc." Seems silly, but 3 years ago the idea of banning liquid was ludicrous.

I was trying to make a point which I think you understand. You being an educated person in Crimminal Justice know something about law and how the United States justice system is suppose to function. You know that secret laws are not what our constitution calls for.

You also know that what TSA is doing with its seccret laws and secret lists is not the American way.

Yet you do not have the confidence in your personal beliefs to do the right thing which is to find other means of earning a living. You have become part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Oh come'on guys. You just don't get it. This is just one giant Kabuki Theatre. You know, Sekeletor is Dean Wormer, Kippie is Neidermeyer, and we are all Deltas on double secret probation. I suspect that SPOTnik is Chip.

I am not a BDO, but from what I have noticed is that they do not start talking to the passenger until the screening begins. They usually stand outside the CP, watch the line/passengers, and if they have someone of interest they will have the TSO at the Mag divert the pax for secondary.

(bolding mine)
So you're the guy on the BOLO I received?!

I don't feel bad about it. The feelings I experience are more along the lines of frustrated and angry. Yes, certainly proof of mismanagement.

In that case, vent away. I can take it.

The secret rules, and all the other police state crap are contrary to the Constitution and a desecration of the memory of all those who bled or died to protect the Constitution and the US way of life. Every citizen should be doing all he can to stop this b*******. I chose the path of demanding accountability and good practices from inside a government agency. I hope you all continue whichever method of fighting best suits your individual circumstances.

I think you suggest some excellent steps for TSA to start back on the path of what government is supposed to be in the United States of America. I am afraid that the official HQ response to these requests might be along the lines of, "These steps would create a vulnerability which the terrorists might exploit. This constitutes an unacceptable risk to aviation security," or, at best, "We cannot do this because we cannot account for each individual circumstance that might arise at the security screening checkpoint, and we need to empower our employees to make the best decision for aviation security at the time these situations come up."

I realized you might be posing these questions for rhetorical effect. That doesn't really give me an excuse to ignore them, and I wanted to make my personal position clear.

I believe that I can do the most to bring TSA back in line with the Constitution and the founding principles of the USA by staying in the organization, cultivating my leadership abilities, and trying to convince HQ to do the right thing from inside the organization. Although there isn't much advancement opportunity in the SPOT program, I believe that it is the most important area for me to address. There are easily hundreds, if not a few thousand, individuals in TSA who would happily take my position. Many of them do not seem to share my view of the world. I believe, at this time, that I have more potential to bring about positive changes in TSA by keeping my employment with them than by resigning.

Generally speaking, SSSS happens when a security guard believes that there is a better-than-average chance that someone is about to violate the rules that TSA requires him to follow in order to pass their checkpoint, right? Don't you want people to follow the rules? Shouldn't we aim for a lack of the need for SSSS?

But wait -- can't we avoid all additional screening by doing what we're supposed to do (e.g., don't carry dangerous items through checkpoints, split up liquids into 3.4-ounce quantities, have our shoes searched, etc.)? I don't follow your reasoning. It's as if you have said that if TSA makes it clear what it requires of travelers, those travelers will know exactly how to do exactly what TSA wants them to do, and TSA will then lose the opportunity to find that travelers seem to be doing something wrong and spend extra time screening them.

Didn't you just tell us that TSA specifically avoids informing passengers of what the rules are?

We say we want to see such a list not because it doesn't seem to exist, but because we have yet to see it. We must assume that it exists, because it would be asinine of you to require us to follow rules that you will not show us, and we're giving you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to whether or not you would do something so ridiculous. Some of us suspect that there is no list of rules we're required to follow, but TSA keeps pretending like they will not infringe upon our rights if we simply follow the rules. We, in turn, ask to see the rules, and the TSA falls silent. *Repeat cycle*

Spotnik, can you get us an official response from TSA that says, "No, we, the TSA, will not show you a list of the rules you must follow in order to avoid having us restrict your right to travel"?


I don't want them to waste their time listing everything in the world that is not prohibited. I hope they'll focus on getting us an accurate list of what is prohibited. Ideally, I would like to see a big sign posted at every U.S. Government checkpoint that has been erected in our airports with a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross that checkpoint en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart, not including laws that the person is required to abide by outside of the airport checkpoint (i.e., just those rules and regulations that apply only at the checkpoint).

Why is this so difficult? TSA: If you truly want us to follow your rules, then show us the damned rules! If you won't tell me what I'm required to do, then it's entirely unreasonable of you to stop me because I'm not doing it, so get out of my way and let me go about my business. (And if you really want to make a significant improvement to transportation safety, drop the anti-terrorism farce and go do something about the 3000 people who died last month in automobile accidents, and the 3000 who died in them the month before that, and the month before that...)

Does anyone not see how ridiculous it is to set up a "roadblock" at which people are required to follow certain rules in order to pass, but then to refuse to tell people what those rules are? It's un-American to stop all the honest people in hopes of finding the few criminals. What TSA is doing is nothing but conducting an enormously-expensive dragnet operation and facilitating DHS's intent to restrict people's freedom of movement based on blacklists.

No offense to you intended, Spotnik. I appreciate your attempt at improving communication. I hope that you see the unconstitutionality of what your agency does and that you are working from the inside to make it operate in a just and legal manner.

I take it Spiff is the one that drives the Eat Me mobile around at the end?

That's the most encouraging thing I've read here in a long time. Good for you, and good luck with your efforts.

If you can find the time to do so, please consider participating in discussion in the comment threads of TSA's "Evolution of Security" blog.

I appreciate what your trying to do. Please do not take my comments to be a personal attack, it is more of an attempt to paint a broader picture.

While your personal efforts will bare fruit it will be many years before the kind of change needed at TSA would filter up from the bottom.

What we need is people like you making policy. These are the people responsible for the mess that is TSA. They are drinking the Washington koolaide and have lost sight of the bigger picture, the rights of the people.

On last thing, a list of rules people are expected to follow must exist! How else could you or any other TSA employee know what to do?

interesting comment that the bdo gives the tso at the mag "the hi sign" as everything i've seen (both on the news and seeing someone actually get spotted in the terminal, it has always been with the pax not in the queue but in the terminal (tho they were approaching the security line).

now, careful what you post as you don't know who might be reading

Secondary screening, SSSS or not, happens according to a complicated set of rules that TSA has marked as SSI. Some of it is because you have broken the secret squirrel checkpoint rules, but that is not the whole story. Any time you are reading TSA PR publications, read "random screening," "risk based screening," "additional screening," and "alternate screening procedures" as secondary screening. If you really want, I'll take some time to pull up a bunch of official publications to demonstrate the point, but I don't think it's anything new to this forum. Oh, and despite the claims of TSA PR, some of it really is random.

I do want people to be able to follow the rules, if they choose to do so. I also realize that this is not always a reasonable expectation. My goal would be to get rid of the need for most secondary screening. That would mean that we have security procedures which are effective and provide real security. I think it is bad policy to rely on "random additional screening" elements to catch the bad guy who has found his way through our primary security screening systems.

You can manipulate things to avoid most additional security searches. Those tips are provided on the TSA website, along with many other travel web sites. There is no way I know of to avoid the truly random elements.

I don't know if that's actually the official policy. It's my reading of the statements they have made on the issue. At best, TSA HQ is so removed from the needs of actual passengers that they don't see/understand the need for a clear, easy to follow, easy to find set of applicable rules and regulations.

There are a few clear, unambiguous statements on the website, but not many. The comment about passengers who don't care about the rules was meant to reference the (rare) passenger who shows up at a checkpoint with, say, a claymore, and says "I didn't know swords weren't allowed on an airplane."

No "would be" about it. It is asinine for us to expect you to follow rules that we don't show you. As a result, you have TSA employees throughout the organization taking steps they think are necessary to bring some sanity to the agency. Some come to forums like this, some go to the press, some spend their time talking to passengers at the airports where they work, some volunteer to speak with various special interest/special needs groups, and the list continues.

I haven't been able to get any official response from TSA about a list of rules for the entire term of my employment with them. Even if it's SSI, I would think that I would have the appropriate "need to know." I'll keep trying for an answer, but I'm not hopeful.

As someone who is at TSA to provide real security, I share your concerns. As someone with a family member who was severely and permanently disabled in an automobile crash, I share your outrage. As a citizen of the United States of America and a civil servant, I am trying to do something about this.

I don't want to give you false encouragement. Although many current and former TSA employees seem to share my view, we do not seem to be a majority.

I've posted anonymously on the TSA blog a few times, none recently. I'll admit I don't get to post there as often as I'd like. I am an avid reader, however.

Again, I think it is good for people to question the government. I represented myself as a government employee with an unpopular job. If there is any doubt as to your, or any other poster's intent, I will assume that the criticisms are directed at my agency or my line of employment, and not at me personally.

When I was living in DC, the running joke was, "Reality? That's somewhere beyond the beltway, right?"

Seriously, I am early enough in my career that it's worth while for me to stick with the agency. Mr Hawley, aka Kip, has built some structures that could make the agency more responsive to pressure from field employees than other government agencies. http://www.tsa.gov/who_we_are/values_innovation.shtm (see National advisory councils) I'm not sure what will happen with the new administration, but it should be interesting to watch/participate.

And as to the mythical list, this forum alone has many stories of inconsistent rules and procedures throughout the country. There are many questions posed on this forum and the TSA blog which gather different and, sometimes contradictory answers from TSOs throughout the country. Even field employees sometimes need time to research the answers to simple questions, ie "Where does it say I don't have to remove shoes if I have a medical reason?"

Not to be flip, but are you so sure that all TSA employees really know what to do? Some of us have managed to figure it out, we hope, but TSA doesn't exactly make it easy for us, either.

I don't think Cee's post could be used against her. The information is available in the BDO job description, which is available to the general public. It just takes someone who is familiar with the TSA to translate all the gov-u-speak.

You can encounter BDOs anywhere in the airport environment. We are not tied to the checkpoint or any other screening locations. Where we are, and what we are doing, at any particular moment is determined by the needs of the airport. (Or alternate location, if on one of our PR partnership deployments to non-airports.)

[QUOTE=spotnik;10264703]


Not to be flip, but are you so sure that all TSA employees really know what to do? Some of us have managed to figure it out, we hope, but TSA doesn't exactly make it easy for us, either.

QUOTE]

I actually have no doubt that TSA has very poor descriptions of what an employee must do in their job.

Evidence of this is the reports from the flying public on how they receive different treatment at various checkpoints. Another point of evidence is the common failure of TSA to find threat objects during various testing cycles. GAO covered this topic pretty well.

Simply put TSA and its employees are incompetent. Not from lack of individual ability but from some of the poorest senior management this country has ever witnessed.

For TSA to improve will require major changes at the top.
Sadly I see little chance of that happening.

I've been in situations where I have either been selected for a retaliatory screening , have intervened to point out to a TSA Supervisor that someone else is being subjected to a retaliatory screening or have intervened when someone wearing a religious headscarf is told to take it off before going through the metal detector. It's cost me a great deal of personal time and I have missed flights but I don't mind because I feel so strongly about fighting the attitudes I often see and educating people (TSO's and pax) on their rights.

My question for the OP is whether or not TSA has an internal means of tracking complaints against individual TSO's for retaliatory referrals to secondary screening. I've completed lot's of complaint forms, spoken w/ a lot of terminal managers and even have the phone numbers of a couple of TSA Directors but I continue to see TSO's that have acted very inappropriately by any benchmark still on the job.

From the report:"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) uses undercover, or covert, testing to approximate techniques that terrorists may use to identify vulnerabilities in and measure the performance of airport security systems. During these tests, undercover inspectors attempt to pass threat objects through passenger and baggage screening systems, and access secure airport areas."

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08958.pdf

I won't go to the ridiculous extent of saying that it is good for TSOs to fail tests, but I can verify the truth of this statement from personal experience. The covert tests are not solely designed to evaluate the abilities of TSOs. (There are a lot of other tests to do that.) The covert tests are designed to test potential security vulnerabilities. This expands beyond poor TSO performance.

With the election coming, there will inevitably be some changes at TSA. I am actually eager to see what happens.

^^^^^^^^

I love hearing about the public doing this, although it makes me very angry that it's necessary. In fact, I have made some "friends" at my airport among both uniformed staff and management for pointing out similar abuses. (I figure it's better for me to do it. What are they going to do, fire me for pointing out violations of TSA policy and civil rights? I wonder how well that will go for them.) Of course, I mostly get support from those who are not involved in violations.

I hope I have occasion to (as a regular passenger)go through the airport where you saw a screener telling someone to remove a religious head scarf. Can you imagine what sort of trouble would come from an off duty TSA employee serving as a witness to the passenger's civil rights complaint?

Anyway, keep up the good work. TSOs and passengers need to be educated about passenger rights. (And, occasionally about TSO rights, but that's another discussion.)I hope you are not caused to miss any more flights, and that you get proper compensation if you do miss more flights.