Originally Posted by
pmocek
Generally speaking, SSSS happens when a security guard believes that there is a better-than-average chance that someone is about to violate the rules that TSA requires him to follow in order to pass their checkpoint, right? Don't you want people to follow the rules? Shouldn't we aim for a lack of the need for SSSS?
Secondary screening, SSSS or not, happens according to a complicated set of rules that TSA has marked as SSI.
Some of it is because you have broken the secret squirrel checkpoint rules, but that is not the whole story. Any time you are reading TSA PR publications, read "random screening," "risk based screening," "additional screening," and "alternate screening procedures" as secondary screening. If you really want, I'll take some time to pull up a bunch of official publications to demonstrate the point, but I don't think it's anything new to this forum. Oh, and despite the claims of TSA PR, some of it really is random.
I do want people to be able to follow the rules, if they choose to do so. I also realize that this is not always a reasonable expectation. My goal would be to get rid of the need for most secondary screening. That would mean that we have security procedures which are effective and provide real security. I think it is bad policy to rely on "random additional screening" elements to catch the bad guy who has found his way through our primary security screening systems.
Originally Posted by
pmocek
But wait -- can't we avoid all additional screening by doing what we're supposed to do (e.g., don't carry dangerous items through checkpoints, split up liquids into 3.4-ounce quantities, have our shoes searched, etc.)? I don't follow your reasoning. It's as if you have said that if TSA makes it clear what it requires of travelers, those travelers will know exactly how to do exactly what TSA wants them to do, and TSA will then lose the opportunity to find that travelers seem to be doing something wrong and spend extra time screening them.
You can manipulate things to avoid most additional security searches. Those tips are provided on the TSA website, along with many other travel web sites. There is no way I know of to avoid the truly random elements.
Originally Posted by
pmocek
Didn't you just tell us that TSA specifically avoids informing passengers of what the rules are?
I don't know if that's actually the official policy. It's my reading of the statements they have made on the issue. At best, TSA HQ is so removed from the needs of actual passengers that they don't see/understand the need for a clear, easy to follow, easy to find set of applicable rules and regulations.
There are a few clear, unambiguous statements on the website, but not many. The comment about passengers who don't care about the rules was meant to reference the (rare) passenger who shows up at a checkpoint with, say, a claymore, and says "I didn't know swords weren't allowed on an airplane."
Originally Posted by
pmocek
We say we want to see such a list not because it doesn't seem to exist, but because we have yet to see it. We must assume that it exists, because it would be asinine of you to require us to follow rules that you will not show us, and we're giving you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to whether or not you would do something so ridiculous. Some of us suspect that there is no list of rules we're required to follow, but TSA keeps pretending like they will not infringe upon our rights if we simply follow the rules. We, in turn, ask to see the rules, and the TSA falls silent. *Repeat cycle*
Spotnik, can you get us an official response from TSA that says, "No, we, the TSA, will not show you a list of the rules you must follow in order to avoid having us restrict your right to travel"?
No "would be" about it. It
is asinine for us to expect you to follow rules that we don't show you. As a result, you have TSA employees throughout the organization taking steps they think are necessary to bring some sanity to the agency. Some come to forums like this, some go to the press, some spend their time talking to passengers at the airports where they work, some volunteer to speak with various special interest/special needs groups, and the list continues.
I haven't been able to get
any official response from TSA about a list of rules for the entire term of my employment with them. Even if it's SSI, I would think that I would have the appropriate "need to know." I'll keep trying for an answer, but I'm not hopeful.
Originally Posted by
pmocek
I don't want them to waste their time listing everything in the world that is not prohibited. I hope they'll focus on getting us an accurate list of what is prohibited. Ideally, I would like to see
a big sign posted at every U.S. Government checkpoint that has been erected in our airports with a list of all the rules and regulations that TSA will subject someone to if that person wishes to cross that checkpoint en route to the gate from which his domestic flight will depart, not including laws that the person is required to abide by outside of the airport checkpoint (i.e., just those rules and regulations that apply only at the checkpoint).
Why is this so difficult? TSA: If you truly want us to follow your rules, then show us the damned rules! If you won't tell me what I'm required to do, then it's entirely unreasonable of you to stop me because I'm not doing it, so get out of my way and let me go about my business. (And if you really want to make a significant improvement to transportation safety,
drop the anti-terrorism farce and go do something about the 3000 people who died last month in automobile accidents, and the 3000 who died in them the month before that, and the month before that...)
Does anyone
not see how ridiculous it is to set up a "roadblock" at which people are required to follow certain rules in order to pass, but then to refuse to tell people what those rules are? It's un-American to stop all the honest people in hopes of finding the few criminals.
What TSA is doing is nothing but conducting an enormously-expensive dragnet operation and facilitating DHS's intent to restrict people's freedom of movement based on blacklists.
No offense to you intended, Spotnik. I appreciate your attempt at improving communication. I hope that you see the unconstitutionality of what your agency does and that you are working from the inside to make it operate in a just and legal manner.
As someone who is at TSA to provide real security, I share your concerns. As someone with a family member who was severely and permanently disabled in an automobile crash, I share your outrage. As a citizen of the United States of America and a civil servant, I am trying to do something about this.
Originally Posted by
pmocek
That's the most encouraging thing I've read here in a long time. Good for you, and good luck with your efforts.
If you can find the time to do so, please consider participating in discussion in the comment threads of
TSA's "Evolution of Security" blog.
I don't want to give you false encouragement. Although
many current and former TSA employees seem to share my view, we do not seem to be a majority.
I've posted anonymously on the TSA blog a few times, none recently. I'll admit I don't get to post there as often as I'd like. I am an avid reader, however.
Originally Posted by
Boggie Dog
I appreciate what your trying to do. Please do not take my comments to be a personal attack, it is more of an attempt to paint a broader picture.
While your personal efforts will bare fruit it will be many years before the kind of change needed at TSA would filter up from the bottom.
What we need is people like you making policy. These are the people responsible for the mess that is TSA. They are drinking the Washington koolaide and have lost sight of the bigger picture, the rights of the people.
On last thing, a list of rules people are expected to follow must exist! How else could you or any other TSA employee know what to do?
Again, I think it is
good for people to question the government. I represented myself as a government employee with an unpopular job. If there is any doubt as to your, or any other poster's intent, I will assume that the criticisms are directed at my agency or my line of employment, and not at me personally.
When I was living in DC, the running joke was, "Reality? That's somewhere beyond the beltway, right?"
Seriously, I am early enough in my career that it's worth while for me to stick with the agency. Mr Hawley, aka Kip, has built some structures that
could make the agency more responsive to pressure from field employees than other government agencies.
http://www.tsa.gov/who_we_are/values_innovation.shtm (see National advisory councils) I'm not sure what will happen with the new administration, but it should be interesting to watch/participate.
And as to the mythical list, this forum alone has many stories of inconsistent rules and procedures throughout the country. There are many questions posed on this forum and the TSA blog which gather different and, sometimes contradictory answers from TSOs throughout the country. Even field employees sometimes need time to research the answers to simple questions, ie "Where does it say I don't have to remove shoes if I have a medical reason?"
Not to be flip, but are you so sure that all TSA employees really know what to do? Some of us have managed to figure it out, we hope, but TSA doesn't exactly make it easy for us, either.
Originally Posted by
goalie
interesting comment that the bdo gives the tso at the mag "the hi sign" as everything i've seen (both on the news and seeing someone actually get spotted in the terminal, it has always been with the pax not in the queue but in the terminal (tho they were approaching the security line).
now, careful what you post as you don't know who might be reading
I don't think Cee's post could be used against her. The information is available in the BDO job description, which is available to the general public. It just takes someone who is familiar with the TSA to translate all the gov-u-speak.
You can encounter BDOs anywhere in the airport environment. We are not tied to the checkpoint or any other screening locations. Where we are, and what we are doing, at any particular moment is determined by the needs of the airport. (Or alternate location, if on one of our PR partnership deployments to non-airports.)