FAMed Again, but maybe a solution
Dec 12, 2007, 8:48 pm
#226
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Here's an idea... if they don't want to be a uniformed service, buy a fricken ticket and be a passenger. That way, from a boarding/seating perspective, nobody knows them from any other government employee flying at the GSA rate. That's, at least, addresses your issue. How about the rest?
Dec 12, 2007, 8:49 pm
#227
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: constantly questioning DHS
Posts: 43
[/QUOTE] How about this - FAMs and LEOs preboard due STRICTLY to the airlines.
Isn't this one of the main ways LEOs are spotted?
The airlines have, to date, refused to budge on the issue. It is an airline policy and exists nowhere else. But they enforce it.[/QUOTE]
The issue with pre-boarding has to do with a Federal Aviation Regulation (F.A.R.) (public knowledge) that requires that all armed individuals be aware of one another, yet not be officially introduced to FAM's, since the FAM regulation overrides the F.A.R. Airlines have no real way of doing this without breaking anyone's cover, whether they are 'covert' or not - which then breaks the FAM regs. Pre-boarding, has, in the past, been the way to accomplish this when there were not many FAM's. With the increase, the difficulties in accomplishing the F.A.R. have increased.
I am happy not to pre-board FAMs on my carrier - just let us know the rules, since DHS owns them.
Isn't this one of the main ways LEOs are spotted?
The airlines have, to date, refused to budge on the issue. It is an airline policy and exists nowhere else. But they enforce it.[/QUOTE]
The issue with pre-boarding has to do with a Federal Aviation Regulation (F.A.R.) (public knowledge) that requires that all armed individuals be aware of one another, yet not be officially introduced to FAM's, since the FAM regulation overrides the F.A.R. Airlines have no real way of doing this without breaking anyone's cover, whether they are 'covert' or not - which then breaks the FAM regs. Pre-boarding, has, in the past, been the way to accomplish this when there were not many FAM's. With the increase, the difficulties in accomplishing the F.A.R. have increased.
I am happy not to pre-board FAMs on my carrier - just let us know the rules, since DHS owns them.
Dec 12, 2007, 8:49 pm
#228
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Ad hominem. Edit your post please and take the stuff about me out of it.
Dec 12, 2007, 8:52 pm
#229
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: constantly questioning DHS
Posts: 43
And, yet, that's only one of the more identifying characteristics, the rest of which you fail to address.
Here's an idea... if they don't want to be a uniformed service, buy a fricken ticket and be a passenger. That way, from a boarding/seating perspective, nobody knows them from any other government employee flying at the GSA rate. That's, at least, addresses your issue. How about the rest?
Here's an idea... if they don't want to be a uniformed service, buy a fricken ticket and be a passenger. That way, from a boarding/seating perspective, nobody knows them from any other government employee flying at the GSA rate. That's, at least, addresses your issue. How about the rest?
Dec 12, 2007, 8:53 pm
#230
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
The issue with pre-boarding has to do with a Federal Aviation Regulation (F.A.R.) (public knowledge) that requires that all armed individuals be aware of one another, yet not be officially introduced to FAM's, since the FAM regulation overrides the F.A.R. Airlines have no real way of doing this without breaking anyone's cover, whether they are 'covert' or not - which then breaks the FAM regs. Pre-boarding, has, in the past, been the way to accomplish this when there were not many FAM's. With the increase, the difficulties in accomplishing the F.A.R. have increased.
I am happy not to pre-board FAMs on my carrier - just let us know the rules, since DHS owns them.
I am happy not to pre-board FAMs on my carrier - just let us know the rules, since DHS owns them.
At this time preboarding someone with a gun is beyond ridiculous.
Dec 12, 2007, 8:54 pm
#231
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Dec 12, 2007, 8:56 pm
#232
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
I will not. I am not attacking you... I am attacking your open fantasizing about what folk in other jobs do and think -- you honestly have no actual idea as one who does not actually how those jobs. This buffer will not fit the number of links that support the argument and I suggest those interested simply look to your other postings to do their own research.
That is insulting.
And you have no idea who I am or what I do. Many on this board do. You're not one of them.
Dec 12, 2007, 8:56 pm
#233
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: BOS
Programs: Recovering AA flyer, LT PLT 2.6 MM
Posts: 1,543
Indeed, it does. They buy a ticket as a passenger at a GSA rate and board as a passenger with everyone else. The carrier has no idea a FAM is aboard. This, clearly, can only improve their cover.
Dec 12, 2007, 8:58 pm
#234
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: BOS
Programs: Recovering AA flyer, LT PLT 2.6 MM
Posts: 1,543
Dec 12, 2007, 8:59 pm
#235
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,704
Indeed, it does. They buy a ticket as a passenger at a GSA rate and board as a passenger with everyone else. The carrier has no idea a FAM is aboard. This, clearly, can only improve their cover.
Dec 12, 2007, 10:20 pm
#237
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Southern California
Programs: DL: 3.8 MM, Marriott: Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 24,575
Folks, can we ask a huge favor of all of you??
If you have an issue with either a post or poster here in TS/S, would you please click on the red triangular icon in the bottom left corner and report it? We'll then take a look at the situation and correct if necessary.
Would you please not report it and then immediately launch into an attack on whoever you have an issue with? We're monitoring this forum pretty close but occasionally we have to take potty breaks and the like.
we promise to address the situation as soon as humanly possible.
Thanks for your patience.
________________________
Cholula
Travel Safety/Security Forum Moderator
If you have an issue with either a post or poster here in TS/S, would you please click on the red triangular icon in the bottom left corner and report it? We'll then take a look at the situation and correct if necessary.
Would you please not report it and then immediately launch into an attack on whoever you have an issue with? We're monitoring this forum pretty close but occasionally we have to take potty breaks and the like.
we promise to address the situation as soon as humanly possible.
Thanks for your patience.
________________________
Cholula
Travel Safety/Security Forum Moderator
Dec 12, 2007, 11:31 pm
#238
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 315
Dec 13, 2007, 1:55 am
#239
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 361
[QUOTE=sinanju;8869414]That is, without doubt, the silliest thing I've read all month. I had one behind me coming home from London the other day. I knew he was a FAM and he knew I knew he was a FAM -- he seemed a bit scared that others might know, too:
I sit in 2A alot on most flights and I am NOT an FAM.
- Muscle bound
- Buzz cut
- Never reclined
- Only drank water
- Kept all possessions in underseat storage, and then next to him after take-off, despite having an entire, large overhead bin to himself in that cabin
- FAs addressed all passengers by name except him
there's alot of different kinds of Fed that this person could be,
including that oxymoron of all, military intelligence . . . *smirk*
there is also special couriers part of the US State Dept
Diplomatic Security Service... there is also several kinds of Fed Marshals
there's the FAM, but the real fun stuff is with Executive Protection or
further up the "food chain" with CSS/CIA or better yet, NSA SIGINT
and the MT WEATHER gang...
[/COLOR][/SIZE]
- Sitting in a FAM favorite seat on an AA 777, 2A
I sit in 2A alot on most flights and I am NOT an FAM.
Last edited by Krakajax; Dec 14, 2007 at 12:23 am
Dec 13, 2007, 2:03 am
#240
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 361
hope you didnt spill your $4.00 Starbucks Latte