petaluma1

I believe that sometime in the not-too-distant future, we will learn that TSA has set the body scanners to alarm on the "groin area" frequently enough that tTSA can be assured of being able to get their hands into a certain number of passengers' genitals on a daily basis.

ysolde

I appreciate your having answered. I do want to point out two things:

1. As a person in a wheelchair, I never set off the alarm, because I don't go through the scanner, etc.

2. This TSA interest in long hair is a relatively new phenomenon (I would say about the last nine-ten months). I suspect the guidelines have changed somewhere along the line, and no one has advised the traveling public.

chollie

It may be related to TSA's past practice of profiling and targeting black women's hair. There has been a steady unrelenting stream of complaints about this, because even black women with 'buzz cut' hair get their heads stroked. The issue clearly wasn't the amount, style or quality of the hairdo, it was in many cases obviously race-based. I suspect someone may have decided to keep targeting all black women, but add in some long-haired non-black women as a defense against accusations of racist profiling.

gsoltso

*I can not talk about SOP for the pat-down here (or anywhere else in public)*, however, based upon many of the comments here, there is a glaring error in the way many of you phrase the descriptions. I know that that is maddeningly vague and completely unsatisfying, but if you are in a checkpoint, and have a pat-down, actually listen to the TSO describe what they are going to do, and you will be able to figure out what error I am noticing. Better yet, read exactly what you wrote in the first sentence above, and watch this video to see if you recognize the difference between what you describe, and the actual pat-down.

I understand 100% what you are saying here, and I believe that adjudication will be the only way that would confirm or deny the legality of the process in the long run. I honestly have no opinion on which direction the courts would lean, I would have to see the case as presented. Another factor to consider would be if the TSO was found to be following the SOP, or in violation of it - that would determine whether the case was about policy or a failure to follow instructions.


My understanding of your original statement above, is in keeping with the public distribution on the pat-down - direct from TSA what to expect during a pat-down.

Not really a tracking system at all, just old fashioned gumshoe work. There are CCTV systems in almost every airport, that would allow us to find someone at a gate, and ask the camera operators to track them back to a checkpoint - sometimes it takes a bit of work, but usually it is fairly simple. You do realize, that in almost every airport, you are on camera from the time you pull on the property, until you get on the plane?

You are quite welcome. I try to answer some questions here, but with the restrictions on talking about SSI in public, it makes it difficult.

Based solely upon your level of mobility, the screening process changes. If you are in a wheelchair and can walk a short distance, we can work to try and get you through the AIT or WTMD. If your mobility level does not allow for those options, the next default is the pat-down. That pat-down should be of both you and the chair, and there will usually be some ETD testing involved as well.

Long hair has actually been a consistent area to check since the AITs were all switched over to the current format with the avatar imaging. Certain types of hair alarm, and if the hair could reasonably conceal WEI or elements thereof, then the area must be cleared, and the way we clear it is to pat the area down.

ADMINS - sorry for the multiple posting, instead of multi-quote, but I have been unable to get it to work today.

chollie

Once again, when multiple people make the same complaint about a particular airport, why does TSA refuse to take action unless each and every one of those pax supplies all of their personal information? Why does TSA insist on researching each problem instead of looking for obvious patterns?

It stems from a longstanding 'us v. them' mindset, the TSA mindset that assumes, at checkpoint and HQ, that I am automatically suspect just because I want to get on a plane and fly somewhere. TSA's base assumption continues to be that the pax always lies and the pax is always guilty.

gsoltso

I can not speak to that, as I am not involved in the process.

I would *theorize* that they ask for all that info to assist with any form of investigation, and to use that info to track down video, confirm that you did indeed come through and fly that day (because we all know that no one on this planet would ever make an unsubstantiated/completely false accusation against any company anywhere). I can only speak to what I have seen at my own airport. Our local management has been pretty consistent in addressing anything like that. When we receive complaints from passengers, I see them follow up in a pretty timely fashion - some are complaints lodged because someone did something wrong, some are an argument against a policy (not an individual), and some are pure creative writing. So far, we have done a pretty bang up job of sifting through them and responding correctly.

chollie

I would *theorize* that an agency that sees multiple tweet complaints about baggage contents ruined because containers were opened for inspection and tossed back into the bag unopened - I would *theorize* that an agency that sees those tweets, irrespective of any formal complaints that have been submitted, has two choices: 1) assume all the pax are working together and lying and try to track down specific pax to refute their stories or 2) review the tapes of the baggage handlers, not looking for a specific bag, but for a specific action.

In my company (larger than TSA), we take approach number 2. We take every complaint seriously. We don't assume anyone who complains is a disgruntled liar out to get us. We realize that even in our great company, we occasionally have rotten apples of two flavors: those who are guilty of misconduct, and those who are guilty of 'seeing something' and not 'saying something'.

Boggie Dog

I'm sure a TSA employee would never make unsubstantiated accusations against a passenger. Just as Mocek!

chollie

Actually, the episode at DEN with the TSO who was deliberately manipulating the system to be able to target attractive males for genital groping exemplifies what I'm talking about.

Those victims didn't complain to TSA - or, if they did, the complaints were ignored. If they tweeted, those tweets would have been ignored, instead of logged into a database.

TSA didn't have specific personal details of each of the pax to research tapes. TSA did, purely through observation (live, could have been tapes) witness the activity taking place.

This business about TSA not being able to investigate anything without complete personal pax information (convenient for logging the pax as a 'troublemaker', ready to retaliate if the pax ever has a second complaint) is complete hogwash. It's possible to act on anonymous tips or cumulative reports (formal complaints, tweets) of a particular activity at a particular airport/checkpoint or by a particular screener.

studentff

I'm sure you've heard this before, but this sort of hair-splitting is maddening to traveling citizens who actually experience front-of-hand genital contact, repeated "incidental" back of hand genital contact, or whatever else you are being vague about, regardless of the words TSA uses to describe what they claim they are going to do. I'm sure TSA spends lots of $ on PR hacks to identify borderline-correct euphemisms like "groin" instead of "genital," and I'm sure they spend a lot of time indoctrinating employees on those words and their goodness, but it does not change the passenger experience.

This is reminiscent of TSA's insistence on claiming that TSA does not confiscate items that are barred from passing the checkpoint and that passengers "voluntarily surrender" these items. No passenger cares about that distinction when they are facing missing a flight, have no parked car to which to return the item even if they had time, etc. But TSA loved to tout that and I'm sure loved to indoctrinate TSA employees on the benevolence of "voluntarily surrender."

The video you link to, by the way, is maddening to any traveler who identifies a "sensitive/painful" area to a screener only to actually experience having that area screened more aggressively and painfully than normal because the screener uses the identification of a painful area as an excuse the traveler may be hiding something there.

petaluma1

TSA lie: "…contact with Plaintiff's genitals, if any at all, was incidental and occurred through the course of a typical security pat-down."

It’s deliberate, it’s sexually abusive and it seems as if many screeners enjoy it.

tinyurl.com/y9ttb62p

Boggie Dog

Doesn't count, just one of those unsubstantiated claims by a passenger.

petaluma1

What doesn't count? The lie or the claim that it's deliberate and sexually abusive?

Whatever TSA and those who support its actions say, in any other circumstances unwanted touching of the genitals would get the perp arrested for sexual assault. And don't try to tell me that passengers give their consent. They can't consent to something they don't know is going to happen to them.

The next time you're in line for a groping, ask the screener if he or she is going to be touching your genitals. You'll get a supervisor and/or the police called on your faster than you can blink and the TSA will claim you are obstructing a search.

Boggie Dog

Obviously if TSA says it didn't happen then that is case closed. No reason to ever take another look. We all know that TSA never, ever, says anything that isn't 1,000% true and right. I think it is safe to say that TSA has the most professional work force of any federal agency. I mean, come on, they all have had backgrounds checks. Just like that felon TSA hired at RIC and put pressure on the airport to issue SIDA credentials to. TSA Hires Felon & Forces Airport To Issue Security Badge

I just see no reason to ever suspect TSA of anything underhanded.

Now excuse me while I go wash the bile out of my mouth.

petaluma1