Originally Posted by
WillCAD
While the legality of an administrative search has been established, I do not recall hearing of a single court decision that specifically addressed the legality of the full-body rubdown with repeated front-of-hand genital contact that TSA currently uses, nor of the full-body rubdown with repeated 'incidental' back-of-hand genital contact that was used previously.
It is my personal opinion, however, that should these specific procedures ever actually be adjudicated that they will be found to be more intrusive or intensive than necessary, in light of current technology, to detect weapons or explosives, confined in good faith to that purpose.
The legal basis for TSA's searches carries inherent limits which, to any reasonable person, should restrict the methodology, duration, and circumstances of the search.
*I can not talk about SOP for the pat-down here (or anywhere else in public)*, however, based upon many of the comments here, there is a glaring error in the way many of you phrase the descriptions. I know that that is maddeningly vague and completely unsatisfying, but if you are in a checkpoint, and have a pat-down,
actually listen to the TSO describe what they are going to do, and you will be able to figure out what error I am noticing. Better yet, read exactly what you wrote in the first sentence above, and watch
this video to see if you recognize the difference between what you describe, and the actual pat-down.
I understand 100% what you are saying here, and I believe that adjudication will be the only way that would confirm or deny the legality of the process in the long run. I honestly have no opinion on which direction the courts would lean, I would have to see the case as presented. Another factor to consider would be if the TSO was found to be following the SOP, or in violation of it - that would determine whether the case was about policy or a failure to follow instructions.
Originally Posted by
Boggie Dog
From the limited knowledge I have TSA claims a "TSA Full-Body Rubdown"© does not require genital contact. If that is the evidence the courts are considering then I can see how they might decide that the procedure is not a violation of the law. Problem is, anyone who is paying attention knows that the "TSA Full-Body Rubdown"©
seems to require a full on groping of the travelers genitals. There are just way, way to many reports of genital groping to not realize that TSA is either being dishonest (a typical TSA trait) or that TSA has a severe training issue.
Take a look at DFW terminal A. Multiple checkpoints and any of them can be used to access all gates, even gates at other terminals if a person hops on Skylink which runs on the secure side of the terminal to all other terminals. For TSA to be able to determine with certainty which checkpoint a person used would require a tracking system. Perhaps we have learned a new data point about TSA screening!
My understanding of your original statement above, is in keeping with the public distribution on the pat-down - direct from TSA
what to expect during a pat-down.
Not really a tracking system at all, just old fashioned gumshoe work. There are CCTV systems in almost every airport, that would allow us to find someone at a gate, and ask the camera operators to track them back to a checkpoint - sometimes it takes a bit of work, but usually it is fairly simple. You do realize, that in almost every airport, you are on camera from the time you pull on the property, until you get on the plane?
Originally Posted by
ysolde
I appreciate your having answered. I do want to point out two things:
1. As a person in a wheelchair, I never set off the alarm, because I don't go through the scanner, etc.
2. This TSA interest in long hair is a relatively new phenomenon (I would say about the last nine-ten months). I suspect the guidelines have changed somewhere along the line, and no one has advised the traveling public.
You are quite welcome. I try to answer some questions here, but with the restrictions on talking about SSI in public, it makes it difficult.
Based solely upon your level of mobility, the screening process changes. If you are in a wheelchair and can walk a short distance, we can work to try and get you through the AIT or WTMD. If your mobility level does not allow for those options, the next default is the pat-down. That pat-down should be of both you and the chair, and there will usually be some ETD testing involved as well.
Long hair has actually been a consistent area to check since the AITs were all switched over to the current format with the avatar imaging. Certain types of hair alarm, and if the hair could reasonably conceal WEI or elements thereof, then the area must be cleared, and the way we clear it is to pat the area down.
ADMINS - sorry for the multiple posting, instead of multi-quote, but I have been unable to get it to work today.