stifle

It's inevitable that there will be stacks of scam sites just like there are for ESTA and the other various "online visas" to use the term loosely.

hfly

I have a real feeling that ETIAs will never be implemented for US passport holders. The country making the biggest stink, and pulling the EU in that direction was in fact Poland. Poland has been in the VWP for several years now. Croatia is now a VWP country even before it became a full Schengen member! There are 3 EU members left and all have major issues, Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus. Cyprus is immaterial, as with their corrupt Golden passport scheme, not to mention the whole Cyprus/Northern Cyprus thing, plus all the "Russian" associations that Cyprus has, no one in the Eu is going to die on a hill for Cyprus, Cyprus knows that and that is why Cyprus has been VERY quiet on this issue. Bulgaria has been the loudest, but everyone also knows that Bulgaria has issues with over stayers, and for that matter certain EU countries kept Romanians and Bulgarians out for many years even after they had joined the EU.

So my prediction is that ETIAS is punted to 2025 or so, and that between now and then Romania gets into VWP, with some talk about Bulgaria (and perhaps Cyprus) having a road map............and then that is the end of ETIAS for US passport holders, it will then remain a pygmy program for Canada, Australia, New Zealand and maybe one or two others.

GUWonder

I wish ETIAS would bite the dust, but the money spent on this and the personnel involved are such that it won’t be that easy to abort.

hfly

GU, in which case it will be used for Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, Malaysians, South Africans...whoever.

GUWonder

It will be used for most US citizens too to enter the Schengen area.

The involved EUrocrats and enough ministers across enough countries are insistent that it’s because of the US that they will have ETIAS apply to most US citizens as long as ETIAS is to apply to Australians, Canadians, Japanese, New Zealanders, Singaporeans, South Koreans, etc. Also, the volume of US citizens arriving into the Schengen area is large enough that it’s money they won’t give up going after at that point to support the system upon it going live.

Unfortunately, they won’t abort it. Nor will most US citizens be exempted from it upon it being turned fully on.

hfly

GU, yes that is currently the plan, HOWEVER, as you know the vast majority of EU countries are not really for it. They have been paying lip service to it, but have been looking at any reason to pull the plug on it...................Poland getting VWP was the first, then Croatia......If the US allows Romania in before it goes live, that will be the end of it for US citizens, as Cyprus is not/was not ever the issue, and no one is going to the mat solely for Bulgaria. Remember 5 years ago when the EU parliament wanted to axe visa free access to the EU for US citizens? Well they could not get that through the EU commission, and since then 2 of the 5 have gotten into VWP. That was in fact what got ETIAS going. Have you noticed that since 2019 a growing number of European countries have installed passport reading machines AND allow US passport holders to use them? That too is an investment which does NOT gel with ETIAS.

You really think that this is about the pennies that they have spent on the purported system thusfar? (and yes I know that it it tens of millions of dollars, but in EU spending terms it is pennies).

GUWonder

ETIAS is a response to us having ESTA required of most US VWP country passport users wanting to visit the US and us having no general exemption from ESTA for European US VWP countries’ nationals.

ETIAS is not the result of whatever “clout” former Soviet bloc and (non-former soviet bloc) Balkan countries may have had and have; nor is it the result of any great “solidarity” from the pre-VG-expansion EU states (which are driving the show) for the eastern EU states previously or currently not part of the US VWP during the ESTA-required era.

The USG is also not really opposed to ETIAS. The surveillance state fans within the USG like an expanded vetting network that collects ever more traveler data in advance of trips too which can be used to frustrate cross-border movements by people otherwise free to travel across borders or otherwise be free.

The ABC/egates available to US passport users to a limited extent at some Schengen airports are subject to updates and/or replacement in line with ETIAS and EES.

hfly

GU, this is where we disagree, and had this simply been a "response" to ESTA, it would have happened about 15 years before. While ETIAS was PROPOSED in 2016, it was not ruled upon until 2018...................What happened in 2017? The EU tried to do the whole "all or nothing" thing regarding visas with the United States. The EU commission did NOT allow that to happen, and then they pushed trough ETIAS in 2018 (pushed through being a bit of a misnomer as it currently stands, it will not be in full force until mid 2024 at the absolute minimum). Or to put it another way, had there NOT been this EU "all or nothing" thing, whether because they never created it, or because the US let in the last 3 countries (5 at the time), there might very well be an ETIAS happening at some point, but it would not include US passport holders. Also as you point out, as US passport holders are probably the biggest number, you might have had it just NOT exists had that been the case.

This is not as much about "former Soviet Bloc states" as last I looked Cyprus is not one, nor was Greece for that matter who only VWP a little more than a decade ago, but it is about an "activist" EU Parliament that wanted to show that the EU had/has some greater solidarity than it actually has.

GUWonder

ETIAS was publicly proposed in 2016 after years of Europeans fuming about ESTA, and even after the US was suggesting that EUropean countries do the same as the US with an EUropean equivalent of ESTA. [We got the Canadians to follow the same course with their own version of ESTA for EUropean and other visa-waived visitors to Canada, but they get their projects done more “efficiently” than EUropeans.]

The MEP and physical visa thing was being sought by some as a result of the US Congress pushing to make physical US visas required for EUropean VWP nationals who had visited Iran, Syria, and so on. The post-2016 EP move that ended up aborted in essence was not a result of ESTA — it was a result of the US Congress wanting to block/slow down those VWP country nationals who had ties to a set of blacklisted countries and making say French, Dutch, German and Swedish Iranians/Iraqis/Syrians/Sudanese dual-citizens have to apply in person for US visas when previously they did not when using such EU countries’ passports.

I referred to former Soviet bloc and non-Soviet block Balkan countries in the EU, with regard to EU countries which have some history of being excluded from the US VWP during at least part of the US VWP’s time. That includes Greece and only left out Cyprus — the latter not exactly a country with much clout in the EU beyond what the Greek-Turkish divide gives it.

hfly

GU, you are correct, but there is a difference between "fuming" and "FUMING!". A couple of EU bureaucrats or parliament members bleating for years is different than what happened after 2016. Yes certain parties were offended that "Iranian-XXXX" would have to apply for visas, etc. But that is not really made policy. Lots of little things combined to get things to where they are/were, but I still say that if this "united front" had been torpedoed (and it still can) ETIAS may not apply to US citizens. In the meantime the likes of the Singaporeans and Japanese are sort of caught up in the middle of all this, aren't they!?

simpleSnow

How will that checking be done? Am I correct in assuming when you check in online for your flight (with your passport details) , the details with be matched with some EU database to make sure you have a valid ETIAS?

Now if you are going from US to EU as a dual EU/US citizen, which passport should you buy your ticket with? Since now going to either places you need a pre-authorization, but of course as a dual citizen, you are exempt from both. I have the added complication where my EU passport has a different naming order (NAME1 NAME2 SURNAME) while US (NAME2 NAME1 SURNAME), spelling all the same, but I can just sense with ETIAS having a headache with airline agents every time, so trying to think about the optimal strategy.

Edit: e.g. nowadays, I can just use my US passport for all tickets and just use EU passport for immigration on arrival/departing EU. With ETIAS that won't be possible anymore and I will be at the mercy of airline check-in agents, and given the experiences I've had with certain agents (many of whom are 3rd party workers) I feel like they are going to be very obtuse and make life difficult for every flight.

hfly

simplesnow, I think you are way overthinking this, as the situation is no different than someone who holds a US passport and who holds a passport of another country that they would need a visa to normally visit. Your online check in means little, and you would do so with the least problematic one, and then at the airport when one is asked, "Do you have a visa for (insert country), you will say, no I have a passport/residence card or whatever, show it, and then you are on your way.

GUWonder

ETIAS will result in ETIAS-exempted US passport users being more often required to manually check-in at the non-Schengen airports than is currently the case. US-EU dual-citizens will also have that issue more often in the future as a result of ETIAS than is currently the case for flights from non-Schengen airports to the Schengen area.

US passport users will generally be required to have an ETIAS approved in order to fly to the Schengen area. There will be no general exemption for US passport users.

hfly

If ETIAS is ever activated for US passport holders that is

vanillabean

Given that a US-EU dual citizen must use the US passport to enter/exit the US, I take it the EU passport must be shown to prove having exemption status - at departure from the US like Covid test/vaccination or at the EU arrival airport? Also, I hear that a US spouse is not exempt and needs at least a short stay visa?