GUWonder

petaluma1

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...europe-1214607

TWA884

THE HILL:

TWA884

Folks,

The subject of this thread is the EU's upcoming requirement for US and Canadian citizens to register online before traveling to Europe beginning in 2021.

This thread is not about retaliation for long lines that EU passport holders may experience waiting for CBP immigration and customs processing when arriving at the US or border agents inspecting email and social media accounts; those are subjects for other threads.

Pursuant to FlyerTalk Rule 5, Stay On Topic, posts have been deleted.

In addition, please be advised that FlyerTalk Rule 12.1, Friendly, Respectful and Welcoming, will be strictly enforced in this thread. If you can't be helpful or contribute something constructive or substantive to this thread, please refrain from posting.

While you may compare the experiences of EU citizens entering the US to how this new requirement will affect Canadian and US citizens entering the Schengen zone, posts advocating and/or cheering retaliation or tit-for-tat treatment are in violation of the rules and will be summarily deleted. Repeat offenders will be subject to discipline, including the suspension of their posting privileges.

Thank you for understanding,

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

GUWonder

Often1

While any scheme is subject to change at any time, the EU has established a website for ETIAS and it contains current information regarding what is involved. Looks to cost roughly $7 for 3 years rather than the $14 the US charges for 2 years, to require roughly the same information as the US requires and have roughly the same features.

The one red flag for some will be "travel to conflict areas." The US imposes a similar prohibition for ESTA, but it goes without saying that the US and EU may define "conflict area" differently in 2021.

People who want to get in on the fun early may sign up for email notification when the application site goes live.

https://www.etiasvisa.com/

FlyingUnderTheRadar

It is not a VISA: https://www.npr.org/2019/03/09/70185...us-visa-report

arttravel

tecate55

DUDE(tte), NO!!!!

The scam sites have already been set up that will inevitably charge 50 EUR for a 7 EUR application in 2021.

The above is one of them.

There is no official site yet.

If it's not a boring site on europa.eu, like European Travel Information and Authorisation System (ETIAS) - Think Tank , it's a scam site.

tecate55

What's this mean for US-resident dual US-EU nationals? Will they be able to travel to EU on their US passport with an ETIAS? Or will they be rejected from ETIAS because they're an EU national and need to get an EU passport?

There's a lot of US nationals that left EU decades ago with no intention of more than an EU vacation.

And even more "accidental" EU nationals because they had an EU parent/grandparent.

Will the ETIAS app ask if you're an EU national and reject any "Yes" answers? Then requiring travellers to collect their (grand)parents birth certificates, marriage certs, translations, apostilles, etc. to get an EU passport? Or renounce their EU citizenship (if they even can) ?

This is the current state with the US and Canadian approach to electronic travel authorization. Before the electronic system, the border agents didn't really care what passport you used, or your Canadian Permanent Residence from 1975. But the machine doesn't use its brain and just spits out a simplified "Oh, if you're an XYZ citizen wanting to visit XYZ, you're ineligible for ETA because you don't need a visa. Just use an XYZ passport/residence card".

:D!

The definition of "visa" is becoming blurred. The US and the EU may not call their schemes "visas" but they function like a visa, and they require you to answer a lot more questions than the majority of travellers would be asked today just turning up at immigration.

For example you need to enter your address and employment details, but many Americans entering Schengen today would not be asked for this.



Australia has the ETA (charged) for Americans and Canadians, and eVisitor (free) for EU citizens, and it definitely calls these "visas". Even though the application process is simpler than for the US ESTA. I wonder if ETIAS will be chargeable for Australian citizens, which may result in the eVisitor also becoming chargeable for EU ciitzens.

Yes of course being required to get a full visa is much more invasive and costly than these electronic authorizations - but this doesn't stop them being visas in all but name. Some African / Middle Eastern countries have "visa on arrival" which are far simpler than these electronic authorizations, as all you need to do is pay the money, yet they are called "visas".

GUWonder

Often1

Whether it is a visa or an "authorization" is irrelevant to the traveler. One answers questions, pays a fee, and is then authorized to travel. Either way, if you show up without one, you don't get to come in and play (and most likely fly either).

tecate55

The mental gymnastics around them not being visas come down to this:

You don't need an 'electronic travel authorization' to enter the country. But commercial carriers may get heavy fines if they let you board a vessel into the country without one. But if you somehow did, the Border Police can't use your lack of an ETA against you.

Since any boarding rejection happened outside of the EU, rights you would have under EU law may not apply. Extra-territoriality at its worst.

IE: If you drive, by personal car, and you're a citizen of a visa-waiver country, you may do so without an ETA.

In other words, Americans, Brazilians, and Australians will still be free to drive to the EU without a visa after ETISA is implemented. I hear Tesla is working on the technology. Or you could charter a private jet. These rules aren't for *those* people, just everyone else.

When Canadians got caught up in an ETA mess, sometimes the workaround was to fly into a US border state and then drive across the border. It's a real mess when someone loses their Permanent Residence card overseas: they can't fly to Canada without their card, they're ineligible for an ETA, and the Canadian embassy acts slow when it's not a citizen that lost their passport.

:D!

I do not think you are correct. While the US ESTA is only applicable to entry by air and sea, and the Canadian eTA is only applicable to entry by air, the Schengen ETIAS will be applicable to all forms of entry.

1. You mentioned the EU, but ETIAS will not be required to enter the EU, rather it will be needed to enter the Schengen Area. It won't be needed to enter Ireland, or Bulgaria/Cyprus/Croatia/Romania until these countries join Schengen. It will be required to enter Switzerland, Norway and Iceland though these countries are not in the EU. I'm not sure what happens at the borders of Andorra.

2. To take things at their face value, as we've just been discussing, a visa won't be required.

Provided you have the appropriate permissions to be in a country bordering Schengen, you would obviously be able to approach the Schengen external border by car without an ETIAS whereas you wouldn't be able to board a flight or ship. However I understand the intention is to build kiosks where one can purchase the ETIAS at Schengen land borders.

As an aside, Americans etc. have more rights than EU citizens when it comes to driving rental cars into the EU, as EU citizens can only drive non-EU-registered rental cars into the EU if they are going directly and will remain in their EU state of residence. For example, a German who lives in Germany cannot drive a Swiss-registered rental car from Switzerland into France, but an Australian can.