Being "Literal" with TSA is fun
Apr 24, 2015, 1:52 pm
#91
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryHolden68
I figure the path of least resistance is the best and gets me into the lounge faster. This may explain why I am never abused or groped.
Blind allegiance and obedience to ANYTHING is never a good thing. Or are you one who thinks the TSA is actually performing a service well?
Originally Posted by HarryHolden68
I figure the path of least resistance is the best and gets me into the lounge faster. This may explain why I am never abused or groped.
Blind allegiance and obedience to ANYTHING is never a good thing. Or are you one who thinks the TSA is actually performing a service well?
Just because I think in this instance the TSO acted professional I'm a blind sheep?
OP harassed the TSO, not the other way around from what I've read. So yes, I said it. They were professional (in this instance) of how they handled the situation.
All this does is make others who have similar views on the TSA look silly and immature.
Apr 24, 2015, 1:55 pm
#92
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Posts: 498
I love the logical conclusions in this thread:
- If I embarrass myself by acting like a spoiled baby at a TSA checkpoint, I'm somehow going to effect positive change by either the TSA going away entirely or their practices changing to my liking.
- If I conduct myself like a mature adult at the TSA checkpoint, it's because I'm part of the apathetic sheeple instead of an active member of a rebellion against the U.S. government.
- If some TSA agent somewhere commits an abuse against travelers, that gives me the right to take it out on some unrelated security agent elsewhere.
- If I allow my bag to go through the 5-second swab thing without whingeing about it, then I'm pretty much enabling the TSA to go right down that slippery slope to anal probes without any complaint whatsoever. (Slippery slope arguments are always great!)
- If I'd voted for someone else (not sure who) in November 2010, the TSA would be gone and some other form of security (?) would exist at airports today.
- The software inside the metal detector that triggers the beeps for secondary checks is totally out to get me. It just *knows* when I'm around.
This thread is great. Keep 'em comin'! @:-)
- If I embarrass myself by acting like a spoiled baby at a TSA checkpoint, I'm somehow going to effect positive change by either the TSA going away entirely or their practices changing to my liking.
- If I conduct myself like a mature adult at the TSA checkpoint, it's because I'm part of the apathetic sheeple instead of an active member of a rebellion against the U.S. government.
- If some TSA agent somewhere commits an abuse against travelers, that gives me the right to take it out on some unrelated security agent elsewhere.
- If I allow my bag to go through the 5-second swab thing without whingeing about it, then I'm pretty much enabling the TSA to go right down that slippery slope to anal probes without any complaint whatsoever. (Slippery slope arguments are always great!)
- If I'd voted for someone else (not sure who) in November 2010, the TSA would be gone and some other form of security (?) would exist at airports today.
- The software inside the metal detector that triggers the beeps for secondary checks is totally out to get me. It just *knows* when I'm around.
This thread is great. Keep 'em comin'! @:-)
Mission creep (apt name) is how we have ended up letting this crap happen, and turned us into a nation of cowards. We have allowed these agencies to do what they do by sitting back and doing nothing. While some may call the OP childish, demonstrating to these rent-a-cops that we have NO respect for them or their job is one of the few things left to do.
So are you a "we need them for our security" guy, or someone who agrees this is a disgraceful intrusion into the lives of free people?
Apr 24, 2015, 1:58 pm
#93
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Posts: 498
Why do you keep looking for extremes?
Just because I think in this instance the TSO acted professional I'm a blind sheep?
OP harassed the TSO, not the other way around from what I've read. So yes, I said it. They were professional (in this instance) of how they handled the situation.
All this does is make others who have similar views on the TSA look silly and immature.
Just because I think in this instance the TSO acted professional I'm a blind sheep?
OP harassed the TSO, not the other way around from what I've read. So yes, I said it. They were professional (in this instance) of how they handled the situation.
All this does is make others who have similar views on the TSA look silly and immature.
It is not possible to act professionally when your profession is against everything this country is supposed to be about.
Apr 24, 2015, 4:44 pm
#94
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: AVL
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I often fly out of a TSA training airport. As a result, there are always extra TSA folks there with new hires and those teaching them the ropes. It isn't hard to spot the good ones and the bad ones. Some clearly struggle with power issues while others are quite competent and in control of their emotions.
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that. Should the government (and my tax dollars) pay for only those who are excellent - of course - but let's stay in the world of reality. My tax dollars pay for the sheriff and the mayor and the Members of Congress but I expect we could each name a few that are less than excellent in their jobs. So, while I want TSA officers to be excellent, I know better than to expect it to happen every time.
So, when I come across a bad apple, whether it be a teacher, a dentist, a store clerk or a travelling salesman, I let the situation resolve itself and then deal with the person's superiors. If I want to effect change that seems the best way to accomplish it. If I just wanted an argument I could have it out with the person - but that doesn't seem to be the most effective way to accomplish change.
If I wake up and want an argument my wife can supply plenty of that - I don't need to go to the airport. A bad TSA officer is like rain when walking from the parking lot to the terminal - it's a pain - but you get over it. I'm here to get on a plane.
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that. Should the government (and my tax dollars) pay for only those who are excellent - of course - but let's stay in the world of reality. My tax dollars pay for the sheriff and the mayor and the Members of Congress but I expect we could each name a few that are less than excellent in their jobs. So, while I want TSA officers to be excellent, I know better than to expect it to happen every time.
So, when I come across a bad apple, whether it be a teacher, a dentist, a store clerk or a travelling salesman, I let the situation resolve itself and then deal with the person's superiors. If I want to effect change that seems the best way to accomplish it. If I just wanted an argument I could have it out with the person - but that doesn't seem to be the most effective way to accomplish change.
If I wake up and want an argument my wife can supply plenty of that - I don't need to go to the airport. A bad TSA officer is like rain when walking from the parking lot to the terminal - it's a pain - but you get over it. I'm here to get on a plane.
Apr 24, 2015, 4:54 pm
#95
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: DCA | DEN
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Posts: 981
For me, security is a chore. It is something I have to do and cannot avoid. All I can do is choose the way I respond to the agents actions. I can either get angry or I can just get on with it. I figure the path of least resistance is the best and gets me into the lounge faster. This may explain why I am never abused or groped.
I take the path of least resistance and am compliant. I could come unglued after these escapades, but I don't. I’ve had a TS/SBI for >20 years, have had NEXUS for 4 years, so I can clear Pre as an Intel Community employee or via NEXUS. I almost always clear Pre, which is good, but this has been over the top. OTOH maybe its just my luck of the draw. Sounds like you are overdue for this.
Apr 25, 2015, 10:08 am
#96
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that.
1. It's not impossible for every TSA officer to be excellent. It can be done, *IF* every level of management commits to it. Disney manages it with a workforce that's huge --- and many of whom are probably less well-educated than TSA employees. The difference is that Disney commits to making sure that every "cast member" treats every "guest" with respect and dignity --- even the ones who don't deserve it.
This, however, would require TSA to view passengers as its clients that it is serving, not as its enemies who it must fight.
2. Sure, not every doctor is excellent. But if my personal physician starts acting like a jerk, I can select another physician with little (if any!) financial burden on my part. If the TSO performing my screening is acting like a jerk, I can't simply select someone else to perform my screening. And the cost of avoiding TSA entirely is immense, both in terms of time and money. The two situations really aren't comparable.
Apr 25, 2015, 11:16 am
#97
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 852
If, 20 years ago, you were told that someday there would be heavily armed police in camo gear in subways, at ballparks, and just roaming the streets, and an agency that could, simply by whispering the word "security", deny you the right to fly on any given day, and that even city streets were patrolled by "soldiers" armed to the teeth, you would have said that was crazy.
Mission creep (apt name) is how we have ended up letting this crap happen, and turned us into a nation of cowards. We have allowed these agencies to do what they do by sitting back and doing nothing. While some may call the OP childish, demonstrating to these rent-a-cops that we have NO respect for them or their job is one of the few things left to do.
Mission creep (apt name) is how we have ended up letting this crap happen, and turned us into a nation of cowards. We have allowed these agencies to do what they do by sitting back and doing nothing. While some may call the OP childish, demonstrating to these rent-a-cops that we have NO respect for them or their job is one of the few things left to do.
How many folks here would be open to border stops on Interstates within the U.S by the TSA? We're already doing at sporting events, public transit systems, Amtrak, not sure about cruise ships. So while some of you say you don't have to fly, what happens when driving is no longer a "freedom" from security...
It's that slippery slope people refuse to see.
Apr 25, 2015, 12:58 pm
#98
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the path to perdition
Programs: Delta, United
Posts: 4,786
A random thought, there are three discussion going on.
1) TSA in general and it's "mission"
2) TSA and people who run the agency on the front lines as it relates to the program.
3) TSA and people who run the agency as it relates to the passengers interactions.
The OP started the discussion on 3) which really applies to people in general. And that is where my random thought comes as I was reminded of my Grandmother who was born during WWI. Though she only had 8th grade education she knew now to spell (as well write, etc.). Perhaps she was from a time when people took a bit more pride in their language skills but regardless if one wants respect one has to present themselves in a manner that deserves it. Especially, when interacting with the public.
I now return the thread to points 1) and 2).
1) TSA in general and it's "mission"
2) TSA and people who run the agency on the front lines as it relates to the program.
3) TSA and people who run the agency as it relates to the passengers interactions.
The OP started the discussion on 3) which really applies to people in general. And that is where my random thought comes as I was reminded of my Grandmother who was born during WWI. Though she only had 8th grade education she knew now to spell (as well write, etc.). Perhaps she was from a time when people took a bit more pride in their language skills but regardless if one wants respect one has to present themselves in a manner that deserves it. Especially, when interacting with the public.
I now return the thread to points 1) and 2).
Apr 25, 2015, 1:38 pm
#99
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,132
You nailed it on the head, unless you're pushing 50 people have zero idea just how different life was traveling and the mind shift towards a Police State this country has taken.
How many folks here would be open to border stops on Interstates within the U.S by the TSA? We're already doing at sporting events, public transit systems, Amtrak, not sure about cruise ships. So while some of you say you don't have to fly, what happens when driving is no longer a "freedom" from security...
It's that slippery slope people refuse to see.
How many folks here would be open to border stops on Interstates within the U.S by the TSA? We're already doing at sporting events, public transit systems, Amtrak, not sure about cruise ships. So while some of you say you don't have to fly, what happens when driving is no longer a "freedom" from security...
It's that slippery slope people refuse to see.
Apr 26, 2015, 12:53 pm
#100
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: Delta TDK(or care)WIA, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,869
I often fly out of a TSA training airport. As a result, there are always extra TSA folks there with new hires and those teaching them the ropes. It isn't hard to spot the good ones and the bad ones. Some clearly struggle with power issues while others are quite competent and in control of their emotions.
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that. Should the government (and my tax dollars) pay for only those who are excellent - of course - but let's stay in the world of reality. My tax dollars pay for the sheriff and the mayor and the Members of Congress but I expect we could each name a few that are less than excellent in their jobs. So, while I want TSA officers to be excellent, I know better than to expect it to happen every time.
So, when I come across a bad apple, whether it be a teacher, a dentist, a store clerk or a travelling salesman, I let the situation resolve itself and then deal with the person's superiors. If I want to effect change that seems the best way to accomplish it. If I just wanted an argument I could have it out with the person - but that doesn't seem to be the most effective way to accomplish change.
If I wake up and want an argument my wife can supply plenty of that - I don't need to go to the airport. A bad TSA officer is like rain when walking from the parking lot to the terminal - it's a pain - but you get over it. I'm here to get on a plane.
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that. Should the government (and my tax dollars) pay for only those who are excellent - of course - but let's stay in the world of reality. My tax dollars pay for the sheriff and the mayor and the Members of Congress but I expect we could each name a few that are less than excellent in their jobs. So, while I want TSA officers to be excellent, I know better than to expect it to happen every time.
So, when I come across a bad apple, whether it be a teacher, a dentist, a store clerk or a travelling salesman, I let the situation resolve itself and then deal with the person's superiors. If I want to effect change that seems the best way to accomplish it. If I just wanted an argument I could have it out with the person - but that doesn't seem to be the most effective way to accomplish change.
If I wake up and want an argument my wife can supply plenty of that - I don't need to go to the airport. A bad TSA officer is like rain when walking from the parking lot to the terminal - it's a pain - but you get over it. I'm here to get on a plane.
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
And pushing back against the clerks whose behavior doesn't meet those minimal standards helps you and others. Two of the main problems with the TSA is that the clerks are apparently taught that they are the first line of defense against a looming threat, and that they see their primary role as upholding their authoritah. If you read the OP's OP, he wasn't being misleadingly literal, he was pointing out the conflicts between what the clerk was saying and what was happening (by pointing out that the clerk had his things) and by pushing back against the clerk's shifting of responsibility to an inanimate object. The OP's final comment suggested that the activity that had just taken place was not (as the clerk had been taught) directed toward the preservation of the American Way of Life against the Looming Terrorist Threat. It is useful to present that point of view to the clerks, and I applaud anyone who does it.
Until I started using the Uebermenschen lanes, I pushed back against the clerks' mischaracterizations of the Nudeoscopes as harmless, calling them cancer boxes and saying that they caused brain damage and obesity. I haven't had an opportunity to do that for a long time, but I used to play the NEXUS game, and more recently I presented my drivers' license to the clerk even when she kept asking for a passport. Just wanting the clerks to follow the rules agitates them.
We have seen instances of clerks falsely imprisoning passengers, committing perjury, refusing to allow medical liquids even after admitting the rules required them to, on and on and on. This is all done in the interest of clerks' wanting to uphold their authoritah. There are lots of abusive clerks, lots of criminal clerks. And from my experience, a majority of clerks are too lazy to learn and remember the rules of the job.
So it's not a matter of an unrealistic expectation that "all clerks should be excellent." It's a matter of pushing them to follow the minimal standards of their jobs, and of letting them see that you don't attach the importance to their jobs that they would like you to.
You may have "getting on an airplane" as a supremely important goal to which everything else is to be subordinated. Others of us don't mind making a few waves.
Apr 26, 2015, 3:16 pm
#101
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lincoln, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 1,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstInFlight
I often fly out of a TSA training airport. As a result, there are always extra TSA folks there with new hires and those teaching them the ropes. It isn't hard to spot the good ones and the bad ones. Some clearly struggle with power issues while others are quite competent and in control of their emotions.
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that. Should the government (and my tax dollars) pay for only those who are excellent - of course - but let's stay in the world of reality. My tax dollars pay for the sheriff and the mayor and the Members of Congress but I expect we could each name a few that are less than excellent in their jobs. So, while I want TSA officers to be excellent, I know better than to expect it to happen every time.
So, when I come across a bad apple, whether it be a teacher, a dentist, a store clerk or a travelling salesman, I let the situation resolve itself and then deal with the person's superiors. If I want to effect change that seems the best way to accomplish it. If I just wanted an argument I could have it out with the person - but that doesn't seem to be the most effective way to accomplish change.
If I wake up and want an argument my wife can supply plenty of that - I don't need to go to the airport. A bad TSA officer is like rain when walking from the parking lot to the terminal - it's a pain - but you get over it. I'm here to get on a plane.
Is this a joke?
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
And pushing back against the clerks whose behavior doesn't meet those minimal standards helps you and others. Two of the main problems with the TSA is that the clerks are apparently taught that they are the first line of defense against a looming threat, and that they see their primary role as upholding their authoritah. If you read the OP's OP, he wasn't being misleadingly literal, he was pointing out the conflicts between what the clerk was saying and what was happening (by pointing out that the clerk had his things) and by pushing back against the clerk's shifting of responsibility to an inanimate object. The OP's final comment suggested that the activity that had just taken place was not (as the clerk had been taught) directed toward the preservation of the American Way of Life against the Looming Terrorist Threat. It is useful to present that point of view to the clerks, and I applaud anyone who does it.
Until I started using the Uebermenschen lanes, I pushed back against the clerks' mischaracterizations of the Nudeoscopes as harmless, calling them cancer boxes and saying that they caused brain damage and obesity. I haven't had an opportunity to do that for a long time, but I used to play the NEXUS game, and more recently I presented my drivers' license to the clerk even when she kept asking for a passport. Just wanting the clerks to follow the rules agitates them.
We have seen instances of clerks falsely imprisoning passengers, committing perjury, refusing to allow medical liquids even after admitting the rules required them to, on and on and on. This is all done in the interest of clerks' wanting to uphold their authoritah. There are lots of abusive clerks, lots of criminal clerks. And from my experience, a majority of clerks are too lazy to learn and remember the rules of the job.
So it's not a matter of an unrealistic expectation that "all clerks should be excellent." It's a matter of pushing them to follow the minimal standards of their jobs, and of letting them see that you don't attach the importance to their jobs that they would like you to.
You may have "getting on an airplane" as a supremely important goal to which everything else is to be subordinated. Others of us don't mind making a few waves.
Originally Posted by FirstInFlight
I often fly out of a TSA training airport. As a result, there are always extra TSA folks there with new hires and those teaching them the ropes. It isn't hard to spot the good ones and the bad ones. Some clearly struggle with power issues while others are quite competent and in control of their emotions.
I'm curious why we would expect every TSA officer to be excellent. I would agree that every TSA officer should be excellent - but let's be realistic - every doctor isn't excellent, neither is every accountant, lawyer, plumber, salesman, police officer, politician ... so while I wish every person I dealt with in life was excellent at his/her job - I know better than to expect that. Should the government (and my tax dollars) pay for only those who are excellent - of course - but let's stay in the world of reality. My tax dollars pay for the sheriff and the mayor and the Members of Congress but I expect we could each name a few that are less than excellent in their jobs. So, while I want TSA officers to be excellent, I know better than to expect it to happen every time.
So, when I come across a bad apple, whether it be a teacher, a dentist, a store clerk or a travelling salesman, I let the situation resolve itself and then deal with the person's superiors. If I want to effect change that seems the best way to accomplish it. If I just wanted an argument I could have it out with the person - but that doesn't seem to be the most effective way to accomplish change.
If I wake up and want an argument my wife can supply plenty of that - I don't need to go to the airport. A bad TSA officer is like rain when walking from the parking lot to the terminal - it's a pain - but you get over it. I'm here to get on a plane.
Is this a joke?
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
And pushing back against the clerks whose behavior doesn't meet those minimal standards helps you and others. Two of the main problems with the TSA is that the clerks are apparently taught that they are the first line of defense against a looming threat, and that they see their primary role as upholding their authoritah. If you read the OP's OP, he wasn't being misleadingly literal, he was pointing out the conflicts between what the clerk was saying and what was happening (by pointing out that the clerk had his things) and by pushing back against the clerk's shifting of responsibility to an inanimate object. The OP's final comment suggested that the activity that had just taken place was not (as the clerk had been taught) directed toward the preservation of the American Way of Life against the Looming Terrorist Threat. It is useful to present that point of view to the clerks, and I applaud anyone who does it.
Until I started using the Uebermenschen lanes, I pushed back against the clerks' mischaracterizations of the Nudeoscopes as harmless, calling them cancer boxes and saying that they caused brain damage and obesity. I haven't had an opportunity to do that for a long time, but I used to play the NEXUS game, and more recently I presented my drivers' license to the clerk even when she kept asking for a passport. Just wanting the clerks to follow the rules agitates them.
We have seen instances of clerks falsely imprisoning passengers, committing perjury, refusing to allow medical liquids even after admitting the rules required them to, on and on and on. This is all done in the interest of clerks' wanting to uphold their authoritah. There are lots of abusive clerks, lots of criminal clerks. And from my experience, a majority of clerks are too lazy to learn and remember the rules of the job.
So it's not a matter of an unrealistic expectation that "all clerks should be excellent." It's a matter of pushing them to follow the minimal standards of their jobs, and of letting them see that you don't attach the importance to their jobs that they would like you to.
You may have "getting on an airplane" as a supremely important goal to which everything else is to be subordinated. Others of us don't mind making a few waves.
Apr 26, 2015, 4:25 pm
#103
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
Is this a joke?
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
If you read the OP's OP, he wasn't being misleadingly literal, he was pointing out the conflicts between what the clerk was saying and what was happening (by pointing out that the clerk had his things) and by pushing back against the clerk's shifting of responsibility to an inanimate object. The OP's final comment suggested that the activity that had just taken place was not (as the clerk had been taught) directed toward the preservation of the American Way of Life against the Looming Terrorist Threat. It is useful to present that point of view to the clerks, and I applaud anyone who does it.
Until I started using the Uebermenschen lanes, I pushed back against the clerks' mischaracterizations of the Nudeoscopes as harmless, calling them cancer boxes and saying that they caused brain damage and obesity. I haven't had an opportunity to do that for a long time, but I used to play the NEXUS game, and more recently I presented my drivers' license to the clerk even when she kept asking for a passport. Just wanting the clerks to follow the rules agitates them.
We have seen instances of clerks falsely imprisoning passengers, committing perjury, refusing to allow medical liquids even after admitting the rules required them to, on and on and on. This is all done in the interest of clerks' wanting to uphold their authoritah. There are lots of abusive clerks, lots of criminal clerks. And from my experience, a majority of clerks are too lazy to learn and remember the rules of the job.
"So it's not a matter of an unrealistic expectation that "all clerks should be excellent." It's a matter of pushing them to follow the minimal standards of their jobs, and of letting them see that you don't attach the importance to their jobs that they would like you to.
OP's actions do more harm than good. He didn't make the TSO re-evaluate his career choice, he didn't make him feel guilty over violating peoples' rights with impunity, he didn't make him wake up and realize that he's been duped by those with a vested interest in fostering paranoia and fear. All he did was make the TSO feel that travelers are jerks. He simply fostered additional enmity between TSOs and the traveling public, furthering the thinking that the public are enemies to be fought, rather than innocents to be protected.
Being a jerk to a TSO who isn't targeting you or breaking the rules doesn't make you a hero protestor. It just makes you a jerk. And it makes TSOs who might otherwise have been allies, or at least neutral, hate the public, and makes them that much more likely to treat other travelers like dirt without provocation.
Apr 26, 2015, 10:01 pm
#105
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 264
Is this a joke?
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
And pushing back against the clerks whose behavior doesn't meet those minimal standards helps you and others. Two of the main problems with the TSA is that the clerks are apparently taught that they are the first line of defense against a looming threat, and that they see their primary role as upholding their authoritah. If you read the OP's OP, he wasn't being misleadingly literal, he was pointing out the conflicts between what the clerk was saying and what was happening (by pointing out that the clerk had his things) and by pushing back against the clerk's shifting of responsibility to an inanimate object. The OP's final comment suggested that the activity that had just taken place was not (as the clerk had been taught) directed toward the preservation of the American Way of Life against the Looming Terrorist Threat. It is useful to present that point of view to the clerks, and I applaud anyone who does it.
Until I started using the Uebermenschen lanes, I pushed back against the clerks' mischaracterizations of the Nudeoscopes as harmless, calling them cancer boxes and saying that they caused brain damage and obesity. I haven't had an opportunity to do that for a long time, but I used to play the NEXUS game, and more recently I presented my drivers' license to the clerk even when she kept asking for a passport. Just wanting the clerks to follow the rules agitates them.
We have seen instances of clerks falsely imprisoning passengers, committing perjury, refusing to allow medical liquids even after admitting the rules required them to, on and on and on. This is all done in the interest of clerks' wanting to uphold their authoritah. There are lots of abusive clerks, lots of criminal clerks. And from my experience, a majority of clerks are too lazy to learn and remember the rules of the job.
So it's not a matter of an unrealistic expectation that "all clerks should be excellent." It's a matter of pushing them to follow the minimal standards of their jobs, and of letting them see that you don't attach the importance to their jobs that they would like you to.
You may have "getting on an airplane" as a supremely important goal to which everything else is to be subordinated. Others of us don't mind making a few waves.
First of all, the TSA doesn't have officers doing screening at airports, they have screening clerks. Second, nobody expects the TSA clerks to be excellent. What we expect them to do is to meet the standards of a job that is less intellectually demanding than the job of a Wal-mart greeter.
And pushing back against the clerks whose behavior doesn't meet those minimal standards helps you and others. Two of the main problems with the TSA is that the clerks are apparently taught that they are the first line of defense against a looming threat, and that they see their primary role as upholding their authoritah. If you read the OP's OP, he wasn't being misleadingly literal, he was pointing out the conflicts between what the clerk was saying and what was happening (by pointing out that the clerk had his things) and by pushing back against the clerk's shifting of responsibility to an inanimate object. The OP's final comment suggested that the activity that had just taken place was not (as the clerk had been taught) directed toward the preservation of the American Way of Life against the Looming Terrorist Threat. It is useful to present that point of view to the clerks, and I applaud anyone who does it.
Until I started using the Uebermenschen lanes, I pushed back against the clerks' mischaracterizations of the Nudeoscopes as harmless, calling them cancer boxes and saying that they caused brain damage and obesity. I haven't had an opportunity to do that for a long time, but I used to play the NEXUS game, and more recently I presented my drivers' license to the clerk even when she kept asking for a passport. Just wanting the clerks to follow the rules agitates them.
We have seen instances of clerks falsely imprisoning passengers, committing perjury, refusing to allow medical liquids even after admitting the rules required them to, on and on and on. This is all done in the interest of clerks' wanting to uphold their authoritah. There are lots of abusive clerks, lots of criminal clerks. And from my experience, a majority of clerks are too lazy to learn and remember the rules of the job.
So it's not a matter of an unrealistic expectation that "all clerks should be excellent." It's a matter of pushing them to follow the minimal standards of their jobs, and of letting them see that you don't attach the importance to their jobs that they would like you to.
You may have "getting on an airplane" as a supremely important goal to which everything else is to be subordinated. Others of us don't mind making a few waves.
First, I don't believe TSA officers are "clerks", they do complete a very important function to us fliers. Second, to deliberately harass them is against federal regulations and is not productive or fair to them as a human being. So if you think these "clerks" serve no purpose, please tell us what you do for a living...