Being "Literal" with TSA is fun
Apr 28, 2015, 7:19 am
#121
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But thanks for the mental image...now I'm envisioning three Army privates trying to schlep a heavy weapon up the stairs in the Chicago loop to take it on the Red line.
By accepting cameras watching your every move, accepting heavily armed cops in urban areas, accepting the incredible unprofessional conduct of the TSA, we show our fear of government.
As for the unprofessional conduct of the TSA, I totally agree that should be eradicated. I don't have all of the answers to solve the problem, but I know one thing that doesn't solve the problem: showing up at a checkpoint and doing things like the OP did. The TSA doesn't see that as a form of mature and serious civil disobedience, nor does anyone else in the area who has the misfortune to observe the embarrassing behavior. If any lasting result comes from people acting like that, it'll be to the exact opposite effect that you intend.
Did I EVER say that? Please don't put words in my mouth. I think we all understand some form of security is necessary (unfortunately) but it should be a PROFESSIONAL organization, not a bunch of rejects from McDonalds. There need to be professional standards, a thorough hiring process, extensive training, and most importantly, accountability. None of that exists with the current TSA, and it shows.
A bigger, more expensive TSA?
Apr 28, 2015, 7:29 am
#122
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I'm surprised none of you guys has mentioned the quarter-of-a-trillion dollar high-speed-rail boondoggle that California is embarking on. If you want to talk about mission creep for the TSA, I expect them to be all over that one like a cheap suit. Nude-o-scopes and all...or whatever they're using in 2040 when the thing actually gets built.
On the other thread, where I'm admittedly taking the side that there are other, better things on which to spend a quarter of a trillion dollars, I argue this point to anyone who suggests it'll be an easy walk-on/walk-off train like a regular Amtrak train without airport-style hassle.
To make the math work in the "race" between a fast train and a 737, you must assume that a train passenger can arrive at the station right before the train departs, while the 737 passenger deals with a security queue.
I forget where that thread is, but you guys should have some fun with it. @:-)
On the other thread, where I'm admittedly taking the side that there are other, better things on which to spend a quarter of a trillion dollars, I argue this point to anyone who suggests it'll be an easy walk-on/walk-off train like a regular Amtrak train without airport-style hassle.
To make the math work in the "race" between a fast train and a 737, you must assume that a train passenger can arrive at the station right before the train departs, while the 737 passenger deals with a security queue.
I forget where that thread is, but you guys should have some fun with it. @:-)
Apr 28, 2015, 7:30 am
#123
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Well we can argue effectiveness, but emailing or calling your House or Senate reps, writing the President or the people in charge of TSA is at least better than doing nothing at all. Some people are jerks to flight attendants and the like because they don't like their attitude, which seems to me not that different than how some people act toward employees of the TSA.
And please don't confuse having manners with being afraid to speak out about something.
And please don't confuse having manners with being afraid to speak out about something.
Last edited by essxjay; Jul 22, 2015 at 2:19 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Apr 28, 2015, 9:53 am
#124
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FWIW: I ain't exactly a fan of the TSA, nor one to back down when they abuse or exceed their authority.
But IMHO, the OP actions are both rude and pointless. Never blame the grunts for policy; blame them if they violate it, and escalate to supervisors. If the policy itself is wrong, go after whoever is in charge.
Never have an argument with someone who doesn't have the authority to say you're right. And there's no point in just being snide. Sometimes defending your rights does require you to be "rude" — e.g. by refusing to answer questions you don't have to — but this is not a case thereof.
But IMHO, the OP actions are both rude and pointless. Never blame the grunts for policy; blame them if they violate it, and escalate to supervisors. If the policy itself is wrong, go after whoever is in charge.
Never have an argument with someone who doesn't have the authority to say you're right. And there's no point in just being snide. Sometimes defending your rights does require you to be "rude" — e.g. by refusing to answer questions you don't have to — but this is not a case thereof.
Apr 28, 2015, 9:56 am
#125
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Not by the TSA or any kind of Federal agent. Sports venues have been searching fans at the gate forever, since at least the 1980's if not farther back. You have the right to not be searched, and they have the right to not let you on their private property. What exactly is the Constitutional issue here?
ETA: This is where DHS would like to go:
The controversial FAST program is designed to study the use of automated systems for scanning behavioral indicators to detect malicious intent in individuals who might pose a potential threat to security. A subject of FAST screening at an airport, sports arena or other public venue enters a mobile screening trailer that contains a number of devices that monitor behavioral cues believed to be associated with malicious intent.
and
https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/..._st_fast-a.pdf
And IIRC, DHS "deployed" another passive system that they were trying out at a Super Bowl a few years ago.
Last edited by petaluma1; Apr 28, 2015 at 10:06 am
Apr 28, 2015, 10:40 am
#126
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They've been using metal detectors at some sports venues, city halls, etc. for many, many years. X-raying bags is less common but that's sometimes there as well. Other times it's a guy pawing through your stuff, mainly looking for booze.
If you're against it, fine, but it's not exactly new. Been around for a couple decades at least. Anything for safety!
If you're against it, fine, but it's not exactly new. Been around for a couple decades at least. Anything for safety!
Apr 28, 2015, 11:46 am
#127
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In a few circumstances, it is still possible to buy a ticket on a usual ticket website and fly on a commercial carrier in the USA without security checks. It's so efficient and such a breath of fresh air!
Commercial aircraft under a certain passenger size (~20?) can fly without security screening. The Anchorage airport still has a wing of departure gates which don't require security -- you can walk right to the gate with a bottle of wine to meet your incoming family members. Freedom!
I'm sure a reasonable number of people on those flights are actually carrying, but I'm not bothered in the least.
Apr 28, 2015, 1:40 pm
#128
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I've ridden the NYC Subway, the Chicago CTA, BART, MARTA, the DC Metro (used to use that one daily), and a variety of little light rail systems around the U.S. (Phoenix, MSP, STL, etc.). I've certainly seen lots of cops, but I've never seen soldiers (on duty), nor anyone carrying "heavy weapons".
But thanks for the mental image...now I'm envisioning three Army privates trying to schlep a heavy weapon up the stairs in the Chicago loop to take it on the Red line.
But thanks for the mental image...now I'm envisioning three Army privates trying to schlep a heavy weapon up the stairs in the Chicago loop to take it on the Red line.
City cops armed themselves with military-grade gear in the 1980's. (Or was it the 1970's?) I'm probably on the same side with you in the debate on whether that's a good way for a city to spend funds.
Read about some now regretting it here.
And check out the rather scary map here.
Not by the TSA or any kind of Federal agent. Sports venues have been searching fans at the gate forever, since at least the 1980's if not farther back. You have the right to not be searched, and they have the right to not let you on their private property. What exactly is the Constitutional issue here?
The fact is that ALL of the above changes have come about because the government rules by fear. The boogey man is out there! Be afraid! We have to take away your freedoms FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
VERY slippery slope. Enjoy the ride down.
Apr 28, 2015, 1:45 pm
#129
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Then you really haven't been looking too closely.
Actually since 9/11 billions in new funding and distribution of old military equipment has brought local police departments into the new "military" style of local policing.
Read about some now regretting it here.
And check out the rather scary map here.
The new policies are based on advice from DHS. How long do you really think it will be before they take over? Before the end of this season maybe?
The fact is that ALL of the above changes have come about because the government rules by fear. The boogey man is out there! Be afraid! We have to take away your freedoms FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
VERY slippery slope. Enjoy the ride down.
Actually since 9/11 billions in new funding and distribution of old military equipment has brought local police departments into the new "military" style of local policing.
Read about some now regretting it here.
And check out the rather scary map here.
The new policies are based on advice from DHS. How long do you really think it will be before they take over? Before the end of this season maybe?
The fact is that ALL of the above changes have come about because the government rules by fear. The boogey man is out there! Be afraid! We have to take away your freedoms FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
VERY slippery slope. Enjoy the ride down.
When I studied "alternative health" I learnt something I had never thought about.
I got a question on my finals. What kills people the most.
The answer was FEAR. Looking back of cause.
Apr 28, 2015, 1:48 pm
#130
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OK. So the black helicopters are coming, and by this fall I'm going to need to pass a rectal exam by a U.N. camo dude to get into a beer-league softball game.
The question remains...How does the behavior in the OP slow down or reverse this process? How does it have any positive effect whatsoever?
The question remains...How does the behavior in the OP slow down or reverse this process?
How does it have any positive effect whatsoever?
Apr 28, 2015, 2:49 pm
#131
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OK. So the black helicopters are coming, and by this fall I'm going to need to pass a rectal exam by a U.N. camo dude to get into a beer-league softball game.
The question remains...How does the behavior in the OP slow down or reverse this process? How does it have any positive effect whatsoever?
The question remains...How does the behavior in the OP slow down or reverse this process?
How does it have any positive effect whatsoever?On the other hand, your quip about "black helicopters" and such seem to indicate your acceptance of these changes, and the over-militarization of local police. Correct?
Apr 28, 2015, 4:41 pm
#132
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FWIW, the last time I went through NY Penn Station, there were two armed, camo-uniformed National Guard members who told me that they had been assigned to duty there by the DHS as part of some sort of anti-terrorism program.
I think those count as actual soldiers.
I think those count as actual soldiers.
Apr 30, 2015, 10:42 am
#133
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+1 I noticed them as well
Apr 30, 2015, 11:18 am
#134
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On the other hand, your quip about "black helicopters" and such seem to indicate your acceptance of these changes, and the over-militarization of local police. Correct?
Apr 30, 2015, 12:39 pm
#135
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No he didn't. His behavior isn't any kind of political expression or response that would be seen as a mature resistance to transportation security policy. It belittles himself and is frankly embarrassing for anyone in the vicinity of the behavior. It's just douchiness, plain and simple.
Quite the opposite: I've opposed that for at least 25 years and still do. (My local village cops are now rolling around in large SUV's that look like armored cars...I'm sure those were far more expensive than a standard patrol car.) But that's completely beside the point in this thread, which is completely about an immature flyer - not TSA behavior, funding, or policy.