Barefoot on airplane = threatened with arrest
Dec 7, 2010, 8:49 am
#61
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
I too sat by somebody with extreme body odor recently, on a transatlantic flight. Just grinned and beared it, don't see what what the airlines could or should do about body odor.
But I do not understand why you see requiring passengers to wear shoes and sleeves as an infringement on personal liberty. There is plenty of room for
personal choice in what to wear within that minimum standard of decency.
Don't see how flight attendants could abuse that, since you either have on shoes and sleeves or you don't.
But I do not understand why you see requiring passengers to wear shoes and sleeves as an infringement on personal liberty. There is plenty of room for
personal choice in what to wear within that minimum standard of decency.
Don't see how flight attendants could abuse that, since you either have on shoes and sleeves or you don't.
Yes, body odor is not fun!
Just a few comments:
I didn't say that requiring shoes and/or sleeves is an infringement on personal liberty. I said that if a private company tries to enforce something like this it would become a PR nightmare. I also said that if I don't like what someone is wearing I open up a book and ignore them.
Also, there are many reasons why one has to very carefully consider all ramifications before making a decision to force their rules, laws, etc... on the public (something that has NOT been done by the TSA) For instance, in the case of airline dress onboard:
1. Some people need to remove their shoes for a certain amount of time to decrease sweating or increase circulation. Some might find it uncomfortable to wear shoes for 10 hours straight on a trans-oceanic flight.
2. Some people may wear sleeveless shirts because they tend to be hot. Perhaps hormonal women need to wear less covering when dealing with hot flashes. Perhaps some people have dermatological conditions that make wearing sleeves very uncomfortable.
My point is this: even though I may not like something as I see it for face value, I respect the fact that there could be other circumstances going on with an individual such that I do not feel it is right to make arbitrary value judgments about what is decent or not, and then force them onto others. I try to consider the fact that just because I am not seeing the whole picture doesn't mean that there isn't a whole picture to be seen.
In a more related arena, this would be a valuable lesson for the clerks that claim that since they don't see it at their checkpoints, it must not be happening.
Last edited by TXagogo; Dec 7, 2010 at 8:54 am Reason: typo
Dec 7, 2010, 8:50 am
#62
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/us-ai...body-odor.html and http://www.cbc.ca/news/pointofview/2...rect-move.html
Some people need to remove their shoes for a certain amount of time to decrease sweating or increase circulation.
Dec 7, 2010, 8:53 am
#63
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
+100. I can't understand somebody getting in a pissing match around putting shoes on?? It is for your own good. If somebody takes off their shoes, puts their bare feet on the floor, I don't think ANYBODY would have a problem with it. Go ahead, that is fine. However, it sounds like the offender was walking around extensively without shoes and became annoyed when somebody corrected them and wants to complain?
Companies and society makes broad rules for the safety of everybody, including the offender. I see many, many, many feet with open ulcers, with active (contagious) infections, bacteria and fungus, or slight release of blood. Making a blanket rule protects us all from having to walk in slightly bloody carpets, or making the carpet more of a cesspool of bacteria.
If the rule isn't there, then it would have to be MORE of a case-by-case which is potentially more offensive, TXagogo. I mean, there are some feet I could show you, and that I see every day in clinical practice, that you would always want covered, and I would say is medically necessary to be covered. 99% of people would agree with those feet. The feet of the 19 year old college female volleyball team might not be like that.
However, rather than turn FA's into foot inspection patrol, they make a blanket rule. I agree with it. The vast majority of reasonable people agree with it.
Don't waste your energy on stupid battles like that (whether AA or FAA), but concentrate on important, actual civil liberties, such as the body scanners.
I would agree with you if the FA said you had to put on a long sleeve shirt, etc. But, this simply is not the case, and to compare the two is nonsensical hyperbole.
Companies and society makes broad rules for the safety of everybody, including the offender. I see many, many, many feet with open ulcers, with active (contagious) infections, bacteria and fungus, or slight release of blood. Making a blanket rule protects us all from having to walk in slightly bloody carpets, or making the carpet more of a cesspool of bacteria.
If the rule isn't there, then it would have to be MORE of a case-by-case which is potentially more offensive, TXagogo. I mean, there are some feet I could show you, and that I see every day in clinical practice, that you would always want covered, and I would say is medically necessary to be covered. 99% of people would agree with those feet. The feet of the 19 year old college female volleyball team might not be like that.
However, rather than turn FA's into foot inspection patrol, they make a blanket rule. I agree with it. The vast majority of reasonable people agree with it.
Don't waste your energy on stupid battles like that (whether AA or FAA), but concentrate on important, actual civil liberties, such as the body scanners.
I would agree with you if the FA said you had to put on a long sleeve shirt, etc. But, this simply is not the case, and to compare the two is nonsensical hyperbole.
Dec 7, 2010, 9:04 am
#64
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 78
I for one appreciate would appreciate the enforcement of decent standards of dress upon people who think it is fine to go barefoot, wear sweat shorts and wife beaters, and in general expose the rest of us to the lowest common denominator. Sitting beside bare feet and armpits is unpleasant. If you are coming from Africa and have never worn shoes, that is one thing (and I know refugees who have arrived in my city that way).
But some barefoot clown showing off his personal style? Check that.
But some barefoot clown showing off his personal style? Check that.
We must all look our best when we fly (and safe from sex)!
Dec 7, 2010, 9:33 am
#66
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&s...f&oq=&gs_rfai=
Still curious what the penalty is for mis-representing the FARs.
Still curious what the penalty is for mis-representing the FARs.
Dec 7, 2010, 9:35 am
#67
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
I was in my fav seat (21f) on an AA MD80 out of DFW and two girls in their teens were my seatmates. They were wearing flip flops. After the FA got our verbal acknowledgement that we were knowingly in an exit row they removed the flip flops.
I hope no one ever has to depend on a couple of barefoot teenies to open the exit and lead them across the wing to safety. I always have my shoes on during take off and landing. I wear just socks on some long segments.
I hope no one ever has to depend on a couple of barefoot teenies to open the exit and lead them across the wing to safety. I always have my shoes on during take off and landing. I wear just socks on some long segments.
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&s...f&oq=&gs_rfai=
Still curious what the penalty is for mis-representing the FARs.
Dec 7, 2010, 9:38 am
#68
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,051
Just to be clear. No shoes and NO SOCKS? Come on, how'd you like somebody with a fungus to do that? I think bare minimum, everyone should have socks on. And, as someone said, if the airline decides it wants you to have shoes on, then put 'em on. I don't think the Bill of Rights ever said private companies can't insist on wearing shoes. Somehow this brings us back to Josh Duhamel.
Dec 7, 2010, 9:46 am
#69
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: BHM
Posts: 118
Dec 7, 2010, 9:53 am
#70
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Suwanee,Ga ,usa
Posts: 3,617
"I for one appreciate would appreciate the enforcement of decent standards of dress upon people who think it is fine to go barefoot, wear sweat shorts and wife beaters, and in general expose the rest of us to the lowest common denominator. "
Gotta agree. I see this as much ado about nothing. There are many serious rules and regs I have issue with related to safety and security. This is very much like a restaurant stating "No shirt no service."
You don't like rules (and the rules do say they subjectively can forbid bare feet) go elsewhere.
Bare feet in a public restroom (let alone a plane)-yech! I sure hope the maids change the sheets at the hotels you stay at.
Gotta agree. I see this as much ado about nothing. There are many serious rules and regs I have issue with related to safety and security. This is very much like a restaurant stating "No shirt no service."
You don't like rules (and the rules do say they subjectively can forbid bare feet) go elsewhere.
Bare feet in a public restroom (let alone a plane)-yech! I sure hope the maids change the sheets at the hotels you stay at.
Dec 7, 2010, 11:08 am
#73
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: none
Posts: 1,668
OP says the FA threatened to call "Customs officials".
HUH???!!
Here's an FA that doesn't have a clue.
Now the pilot (who probably knows the FAR's better) gets involved. He doesn't want to make his clueless cremember look bad in front of a passenger, so he puts it into the form of a polite request. Be respectful.
I hope someone sits that FA down (out of view of the pax, of course) and explains the difference between Customs and the police, and also some re-training on the difference airline rules and FAR's.
HUH???!!
Here's an FA that doesn't have a clue.
Now the pilot (who probably knows the FAR's better) gets involved. He doesn't want to make his clueless cremember look bad in front of a passenger, so he puts it into the form of a polite request. Be respectful.
I hope someone sits that FA down (out of view of the pax, of course) and explains the difference between Customs and the police, and also some re-training on the difference airline rules and FAR's.
Dec 7, 2010, 11:10 am
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 38,688
i have no problem with airline rules. This contract of carriage changes everything for me. The only thing the FA did wrong was say it was an FAA regulation, which it is not. But if the private business has a rule, then it is their right to enforce it and if I want to do business with AA, I agree to the no-barefoot rule. In reality they rarely enforce it anyway. Next time I will say "sure" (although I doubt there will be a next time)
I have NEVER had an FA say anything. Sometimes they comment "you don't want to go in there with bare feet" or whatever. It's always good natured, no worries.
I step in the street every day, on the grass, in public restrooms, and I don't wear shoes. My feet never smell. That is a result of wearing shoes, which confines odors and sweat. In their natural state, feet do not smell.
Also, I dress reasonably well. I don't wear a coat and tie, but I don't look like a bum either. I get respectful treatment wherever I go, even if I don't wear shoes. So this isn't like I'm slovenly either.
I have NEVER had an FA say anything. Sometimes they comment "you don't want to go in there with bare feet" or whatever. It's always good natured, no worries.
I step in the street every day, on the grass, in public restrooms, and I don't wear shoes. My feet never smell. That is a result of wearing shoes, which confines odors and sweat. In their natural state, feet do not smell.
Also, I dress reasonably well. I don't wear a coat and tie, but I don't look like a bum either. I get respectful treatment wherever I go, even if I don't wear shoes. So this isn't like I'm slovenly either.
Dec 7, 2010, 11:56 am
#75
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 238
If anything, socks will harbour and spread bacteria more than bare feet alone.