RichardKenner

I guess you've never been in any warm-weather city in the summer. At least half of the women are wearing a top or dress without sleeves. I guess that these streets don't constitute "going out in public".

anabolism

Barefoot and half-naked are two different things, unless your flights have been more relaxed than mine. How about hats? There was a time when a man without a hat was considered not dressed. Barefoot is dressed just as bare-headed is dressed.

richard

I've given this a lot of thought because I go barefoot most of the time.

I stepped into an elevator in Charlottesville, Virginia several years ago. A woman looked at my feet. I was dressed well. She said, "you're from the hills."

I said, "pardon?"

She said, "you're from the hills."

"I am?"

"Yes, you don't wear shoes. The people from the hills come down and don't have shoes on. You must be from the hills."

Hillbilly. Poor white trash, basically. That's when I realized.

Barefoot is associated with being poor and of the "lower classes." The contract of carriage spells out in this section that people who smell bad, are objectionable for any reason (except medical reasons) can be put off the plane. It makes sense.

The FA over-reacted to me and the pilot backed her up without getting the full story. This clause in the Contract of Carriage isn't meant to be invoked by a well dressed passenger in F. It is meant for someone who wreaks, who is a "bum" as they would have put it in the past, and of the lower classes.

RichardKenner

You mean like the old sign "Hippies will not be served?".

There's something else that people are missing. The Contract of Carriage isn't a set of rules, but a legal contract. It gives the precise terms that govern the travel and is of the form "if A does this, then B can do this". It doesn't say that a passenger is forbidden to be barefoot (or to be smelly), just that, if they are, the airline has the right to not transport that person. And, when interpreting this contract, like any consumer contract, you need to be aware that it's an "adhesion contract", so that any ambiguity in it must be read in favor of the passenger. Reading that to say "you must never take your shoes off on the plane" misses the context of the document.

Tizzette

I too wear sleeveless shirts and go barefoot in summer, so I would have to put on a sweater and wear shoes on to get on the plane. My well groomed self might not be offensive to anybody, but then again, it puts me out not one bit to dress a little more conservatively for the benefit of fellow passengers. I get around plenty in the US and abroad, so I know what everybody wears and none of it bothers me except on a plane. On a plane, I am in close quarters with a bunch of strangers and I have to sit next to somebody for 5, 10, 15 hours. There are a few people who refuse to understand or else don't care that it is offensive to many to have to sit next to some barefoot guy showing off his armpits in a wifebeater underwear shirt. Since everybody who can afford a ticket owns a shirt with sleeves and a pair of shoes or socks, it puts them out very little to wear that minimum standard for the length of a plane flight out of consideration for other passengers.

candi

I find it offensive to have to sit next to:
children
snooty "i'm better than they are" people
fat
too thin
too tall
dwarves and/or hobbits
Europeans
former monarchs
anyone with any disease
any Dallas Cowboy player
anyone without an appendix (my lord, don't they have a sense of decorum?)
white
black
yellow
brown
poor people
rich people
supermodels (cause then I'm the ugly one)
people not like me
anyone not me

in general, all people should cave into MY needs because I'm easily offended. Yes... this is a good policy.

Tizzette

Nobody can help being tall, thin, black, yellow, brown, poor, etc. But anybody who can afford a ticket can easily put on a shirt with sleeves and wear shoes or socks. All these extremes examples, talking about unwrapping pugs at state dinners and so on, are just silly.

anabolism

So if someone has a short-sleeved shirt but is barefoot, is that OK with you? No armpits, no wife-beater, but also no shoes.

Personally, I'd be extremely uncomfortable if I had to wear shoes for 5, 10, 15 hours. It would make my flight miserable. If you're sitting next to me, let me know, and I'll put one shoe on for you. That way we'll both be half as uncomfortable.

candi

This is my last post about this. I think it's evident that some people want to control others according to their opinions. This is particularly humorous when it's debated in an anti-tsa arena. The tsa are the same overlords that want to impose their controls over certain rights and comfort (isn't getting groped a personal comfort issue?).

If you really want to cover something up, I suggest hands. Disposable gloves should be mandatory as hands are often NOT washed. I've seen people pick their noses, pimples, butt, and other parts and I, for one, do not want that spread to me.

So wear gloves please, because that's what I deem being considerate and polite.

and... facemasks... some people have horrible hygiene.

and gag... some people just talk too much.

and nose plug... it's so rude and offensive when a passenger falls asleep and snores.

I'm going barefoot and unshowered on my next flight. Hope to see you there.

PVDtoDEL

+1

Taking your shoes off at your seat because its uncomfortable is one thing, but walking to the lav without shoes is disgusting. That said, if someone doesn't mind it, it's not the most important rule to enforce.

Cholula

I'll bet it's not.

birdstrike

I find a well turned female shoulder quite attractive. Toes can be quite cute as well.

BubbaLoop

Your rule mandating sleeves is as ridiculous as when they decided to prohibit deodorant and toothpaste on airplanes (a period in which I refused to fly to the US).

I typically fly long international hauls, and strive for my personal comfort. Due to TSA picking on me because of sweat pants in the past, I have switched to Yoga pants. I pair that with a tank top and jacket, since I am often flying between hemispheres from one season to another, and need warmth flexibility. The TSA and/or a hot airplane will invariably make me remove my jacket. If you are offended sitting next to me with my bare shoulders and exposed arm pits, find another place.

InkUnderNails

I love this thread!

I think that there are certain rules of decorum for air travel to which I adhere. First I am an older male, if that makes a difference. I never wear shorts. My bare legs are disgusting. I wear shoes with socks. I take the shoes off for long flights while seated but put them back on to move around the plane. I do not even own a sleeveless shirt. I wash my hands and use sanitizer.

But, those are my rules. What the other passengers do is up to them. I do not get disgusted by it, but I am occasionally, okay rarely, made uncomfortable by it. My two biggest are BO and hairy legged men in short shorts with a "wide stance" that sit next to me.

I am also bothered by the "How dare they not be like me?" folks. But, they can fly with me and sit next to me and I will not be offended. If they comment on my unshod feet, then I will consider myself bothered. Until then, I just hope we both have good trip.

LuvAirFrance

Yeh, that'd be cool. Dress like an Indian villager on a plane. You know, "to be comfortable". Where do we draw the line on this "comfort" thing? What if I'm more comfortable with my pants off?