Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Dec 26, 2012, 11:40 am
#3331
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 729
I just opted out at AUS. I told the TSA staff person who was directing people into the NOS that I would be opting out, and he had me stand aside with my stuff to wait for the arrival of my escort to the grope area. He called for my escort first by passing a verbal message through the TSO staff person who was moving empty wheelchairs through the checkpoint. A bit later he made an O symbol with both of his hands and directed it to the back of the checkpoint. I did not have to wait more than 5 minutes for an escort. The ensuing grope was perfunctory. The groper checked the bottom of my feet this time, though.
Dec 26, 2012, 11:44 am
#3332
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 186
Why? Females may in fact have it worse, although I suspect that statistically males may travel more in the US (or are at least more vocal online, while women may be more embarassed to share their experiences, or to stand up for themselves) There is a theory that women travelling alone also present a path of less resistance for TSOs and are thus more likely to undergo poor treatment.
See the post upthread about the woman wearing the maxi pad. More women wear skirts than men; more women wear underwire bras than men; more women wear external sanitary protection than men.
And some of my worst encounters with TSA over the years have been with female clerks or supervisors.
There are very few times in life when I have any regret about my gender, but when it comes to flying in America I do think that the men may have it slightly better than the women.
See the post upthread about the woman wearing the maxi pad. More women wear skirts than men; more women wear underwire bras than men; more women wear external sanitary protection than men.
And some of my worst encounters with TSA over the years have been with female clerks or supervisors.
There are very few times in life when I have any regret about my gender, but when it comes to flying in America I do think that the men may have it slightly better than the women.
Bottom line however, females aren't prone to pain if we are grabbed anywhere inappropriately.
Dec 26, 2012, 12:24 pm
#3333
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
You seem to be basing much of your argument on the fact that men have external genetalia and thus somehow makes them more prone to discomfort or abuse.
Being 'young, small, and non-threatening' should have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Dec 26, 2012, 1:07 pm
#3334
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,704
You raise a good point.. my experience to date can't be attributed solely to my gender. Maybe it also helps that I am young, small, non-threatening. I almost always travel alone, and have never had problems. I always have female officers (I think this is the rule), and have never been rough-handled. I've never been in bad line-ups either...maybe I just lucked out with good officers on good days.
Bottom line however, females aren't prone to pain if we are grabbed anywhere inappropriately.
Bottom line however, females aren't prone to pain if we are grabbed anywhere inappropriately.
'Young'? 'Small'? 'Non-threatening'?
Infants have had TSOs peer into their diapers, toddlers have been publicly groped, and most recently a young, physically handicapped, 'small' girl (Shelby Walser) in a wheelchair was physically separated from her mother (but not other pax, who could, after all, been evil-doers) because she tested positive - her age, size, non-threatening appearance and physical handicap didn't prevent her from being singled out.
Alaska State Rep. Sharon Cissna was returning from SEA after being treated for cancer (mastectomy). Although not 'young', she was small and quite non-threatening in appearance, yet she had been singled out before for harassment because of her mastectomy scars.
Yukio Miyamae, also not 'young', was small and non-threatening in appearance. She, too, was repeatedly singled out for 'special' attention in PHX - and ironically, TSA tried to accuse her of sexually assaulting a female TSO nearly twice her size when she instinctively threw up her hands defensively as the big TSO suddenly approached her to grope her when she was surrounded by much larger male TSOs and LEOs.
Even Senator Clare McCaskill, (D-MS), someone who originally scoffed at folks who objected to being groped, who called TSA gropes 'love pats', has since said about one TSO at her home airport "when I see her, I tense up. Because I know it’s going to get ugly." McCaskill is not large or threatening in appearance either.
If you choose to take the time, you will find many videos of 'small', 'young' (and old), non-threatening pax being treated harshly at the checkpoint.
If you think females aren't prone to pain if they are grabbed inappropriately, you have never been grabbed or 'chopped' inappropriately.
Your experiences have little to do with your appearance (and attitude) at the checkpoint (other than at race-/appearance-profiling airports) and everything to do with the airports (and even the terminals and specific checkpoints) you transit.
Last edited by chollie; Dec 26, 2012 at 1:14 pm
Dec 26, 2012, 9:32 pm
#3335
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Minneapolis, Hong Kong
Programs: United Airlines 1K MM, Hilton Honors Gold
Posts: 248
I agree. I NEVER allow my belongings through the X-ray until the female assist is waiting for me. Even if I am yelled at for holding up the line. It serves 2 purposes. My belongings don't go missing and the groper shows up quickly.
Dec 26, 2012, 10:29 pm
#3336
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Actually a lot of my problem is there really was not a resolution. It was purely for show and humiliation as far as I can see. I find it extremely hard to believe that the palm grab of my crotch was enough for her to determine that I did not have explosives in my panties. I have to fly again in a month and I really hope I can be more prepared and prevent the situation from happening again. Or at least have a better plan (any plan).
The resolution protocol for this needs to be adjusted. Half the population has this condition at certain times and is it at all reasonable to subject them to this kind of embarrassing and humiliating search? The female TSA clerks you'd think would have some sort of clue if they didn't have the mentality of prison matrons.
Just another proof that the TSA is not fit for the job it has been entrusted with.
Just another proof that the TSA is not fit for the job it has been entrusted with.
Dec 26, 2012, 10:37 pm
#3337
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Just drop a few years, shed a few pounds/inches, ditch any travelling companions, and change your facial expression. 
(At least according to the conversation upthread)
Good luck! Your story really shows the absurdity and it should in my mind have it's own thread. I completely understand if you don't want to spread your story but it is what has long been predicted here.
(At least according to the conversation upthread)Good luck! Your story really shows the absurdity and it should in my mind have it's own thread. I completely understand if you don't want to spread your story but it is what has long been predicted here.
Dec 27, 2012, 12:49 am
#3338
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Well actually I do run marathons and am in pretty decent shape despite being old 
. Not a whole lot I can do about being being 49! Nor a whole lot I care to do about being a woman
I did write both Representative Mica and my NY congressman but did not hear back from either. I am hesitant to contact any news organization based on the fact that TSA will not address wrong doing ever. I do believe the agent followed protocol, I just believe the protocol is wrong not to mention scientifically improbable.
I do not like the scanners but dislike being touched by strangers even more.
Interestingly when I told my story to a female friend and expecting outrage from her, she said she had heard you could request a private room screening which surprised me. The first rule on assault is never let your assailant take you to a second location, and that is how I view the 'private room'. She then said well at least we are being kept safe!!!???!!! I was very surprised and a lengthy, non productive, yes I remember 911 discussion ensued. I am not sure how to illicit outrage.
I will be traveling alone again late January and am trying to figure out a way that I can video the entire experience (good or bad) without a traveling companion. Any suggestions are welcome. Just for the record, this trip is for work from NY to ATL and driving is simply not possible due to time constraints.
. Not a whole lot I can do about being being 49! Nor a whole lot I care to do about being a woman I did write both Representative Mica and my NY congressman but did not hear back from either. I am hesitant to contact any news organization based on the fact that TSA will not address wrong doing ever. I do believe the agent followed protocol, I just believe the protocol is wrong not to mention scientifically improbable.
I do not like the scanners but dislike being touched by strangers even more.
Interestingly when I told my story to a female friend and expecting outrage from her, she said she had heard you could request a private room screening which surprised me. The first rule on assault is never let your assailant take you to a second location, and that is how I view the 'private room'. She then said well at least we are being kept safe!!!???!!! I was very surprised and a lengthy, non productive, yes I remember 911 discussion ensued. I am not sure how to illicit outrage.
I will be traveling alone again late January and am trying to figure out a way that I can video the entire experience (good or bad) without a traveling companion. Any suggestions are welcome. Just for the record, this trip is for work from NY to ATL and driving is simply not possible due to time constraints.
Just drop a few years, shed a few pounds/inches, ditch any travelling companions, and change your facial expression. (At least according to the conversation upthread)
Good luck! Your story really shows the absurdity and it should in my mind have it's own thread. I completely understand if you don't want to spread your story but it is what has long been predicted here.
(At least according to the conversation upthread)Good luck! Your story really shows the absurdity and it should in my mind have it's own thread. I completely understand if you don't want to spread your story but it is what has long been predicted here.
Dec 27, 2012, 12:56 am
#3339
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,704
[QUOTE=lyric1863;19926210]Well actually I do run marathons and am in pretty decent shape despite being old . Not a whole lot I can do about being being 49! Nor a whole lot I care to do about being a woman /QUOTE]
Cheer up, 26 more years and you will at least be allowed to keep your shoes on.
But you'll still be subject to groping if you need a diaper.
. Not a whole lot I can do about being being 49! Nor a whole lot I care to do about being a woman /QUOTE]Cheer up, 26 more years and you will at least be allowed to keep your shoes on.
But you'll still be subject to groping if you need a diaper.
Dec 27, 2012, 12:58 am
#3340
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 19
Oh great, I have had 5 kids, I am almost guaranteed to need a diaper in 26 years!
[QUOTE=chollie;19926225]
[QUOTE=chollie;19926225]
Well actually I do run marathons and am in pretty decent shape despite being old . Not a whole lot I can do about being being 49! Nor a whole lot I care to do about being a woman /QUOTE]
Cheer up, 26 more years and you will at least be allowed to keep your shoes on.
But you'll still be subject to groping if you need a diaper.
. Not a whole lot I can do about being being 49! Nor a whole lot I care to do about being a woman /QUOTE]Cheer up, 26 more years and you will at least be allowed to keep your shoes on.
But you'll still be subject to groping if you need a diaper.
Dec 27, 2012, 6:38 am
#3341
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I will be traveling alone again late January and am trying to figure out a way that I can video the entire experience (good or bad) without a traveling companion. Any suggestions are welcome. Just for the record, this trip is for work from NY to ATL and driving is simply not possible due to time constraints.
Make a friend in line.
You can make up a story or not, but just ask someone.
"Hey, I am wanting to make a complete video of my whole trip and I need someone to go through first and just get video of me going through security. There's a double latte at Starbucks in it if you will help. I just can not for the life of me figure out how to do it myself and I want that part in the video."
If in the process of making your friend you just happen to find me, or someone like me, I'm all in without the Starbucks.
Maybe you will get lucky.
Dec 27, 2012, 8:18 am
#3342
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,685
Medical walk through.
Barker insisted all items removed from pants pockets.
Barker notices a bulge in Traveler's front pocket.
Traveler advises it does not alarm.
Barker persists.
LTSO called. LTSO runs traveler through walk through.
Barker still upset about bulge in pocket.
LTSO asks about pocket.
Traveler advises it did not alarm WTMD.
LTSO calls STSO. STSO asks what's in pocket.
Traveler produces wallet and advises it did not alarm WTMD.
STSO advises LTSO and barker clerk that large George Costanza-like wallet did not alarm WTMD and therefore does not need to be x-ray'd.
Traveler advises Barker and LTSO that traveler previously advised barker and LTSO of same directive repeated by STSO. Barker clerk storms off in a rage.
Traveler advises all to have a nice day.
Barker insisted all items removed from pants pockets.
Barker notices a bulge in Traveler's front pocket.
Traveler advises it does not alarm.
Barker persists.
LTSO called. LTSO runs traveler through walk through.
Barker still upset about bulge in pocket.
LTSO asks about pocket.
Traveler advises it did not alarm WTMD.
LTSO calls STSO. STSO asks what's in pocket.
Traveler produces wallet and advises it did not alarm WTMD.
STSO advises LTSO and barker clerk that large George Costanza-like wallet did not alarm WTMD and therefore does not need to be x-ray'd.
Traveler advises Barker and LTSO that traveler previously advised barker and LTSO of same directive repeated by STSO. Barker clerk storms off in a rage.
Traveler advises all to have a nice day.
Dec 27, 2012, 4:37 pm
#3344
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 186
Sorry, I have to disagree with many of the points you make. You are not a statistical anomaly, and I don't think your positive experiences are due to any of the factors you cite.
'Young'? 'Small'? 'Non-threatening'?
Infants have had TSOs peer into their diapers, toddlers have been publicly groped, and most recently a young, physically handicapped, 'small' girl (Shelby Walser) in a wheelchair was physically separated from her mother (but not other pax, who could, after all, been evil-doers) because she tested positive - her age, size, non-threatening appearance and physical handicap didn't prevent her from being singled out.
Alaska State Rep. Sharon Cissna was returning from SEA after being treated for cancer (mastectomy). Although not 'young', she was small and quite non-threatening in appearance, yet she had been singled out before for harassment because of her mastectomy scars.
Yukio Miyamae, also not 'young', was small and non-threatening in appearance. She, too, was repeatedly singled out for 'special' attention in PHX - and ironically, TSA tried to accuse her of sexually assaulting a female TSO nearly twice her size when she instinctively threw up her hands defensively as the big TSO suddenly approached her to grope her when she was surrounded by much larger male TSOs and LEOs.
Even Senator Clare McCaskill, (D-MS), someone who originally scoffed at folks who objected to being groped, who called TSA gropes 'love pats', has since said about one TSO at her home airport "when I see her, I tense up. Because I know it’s going to get ugly." McCaskill is not large or threatening in appearance either.
If you choose to take the time, you will find many videos of 'small', 'young' (and old), non-threatening pax being treated harshly at the checkpoint.
If you think females aren't prone to pain if they are grabbed inappropriately, you have never been grabbed or 'chopped' inappropriately.
Your experiences have little to do with your appearance (and attitude) at the checkpoint (other than at race-/appearance-profiling airports) and everything to do with the airports (and even the terminals and specific checkpoints) you transit.
'Young'? 'Small'? 'Non-threatening'?
Infants have had TSOs peer into their diapers, toddlers have been publicly groped, and most recently a young, physically handicapped, 'small' girl (Shelby Walser) in a wheelchair was physically separated from her mother (but not other pax, who could, after all, been evil-doers) because she tested positive - her age, size, non-threatening appearance and physical handicap didn't prevent her from being singled out.
Alaska State Rep. Sharon Cissna was returning from SEA after being treated for cancer (mastectomy). Although not 'young', she was small and quite non-threatening in appearance, yet she had been singled out before for harassment because of her mastectomy scars.
Yukio Miyamae, also not 'young', was small and non-threatening in appearance. She, too, was repeatedly singled out for 'special' attention in PHX - and ironically, TSA tried to accuse her of sexually assaulting a female TSO nearly twice her size when she instinctively threw up her hands defensively as the big TSO suddenly approached her to grope her when she was surrounded by much larger male TSOs and LEOs.
Even Senator Clare McCaskill, (D-MS), someone who originally scoffed at folks who objected to being groped, who called TSA gropes 'love pats', has since said about one TSO at her home airport "when I see her, I tense up. Because I know it’s going to get ugly." McCaskill is not large or threatening in appearance either.
If you choose to take the time, you will find many videos of 'small', 'young' (and old), non-threatening pax being treated harshly at the checkpoint.
If you think females aren't prone to pain if they are grabbed inappropriately, you have never been grabbed or 'chopped' inappropriately.
Your experiences have little to do with your appearance (and attitude) at the checkpoint (other than at race-/appearance-profiling airports) and everything to do with the airports (and even the terminals and specific checkpoints) you transit.
It's hard to imagine my appearance has little to do with my experience but your logic is reasonable enough, that an airport's TSA senior mgmt determines pax experience at checkpoints. I'm sure racial profiling at the least is involved in my particular case. `
Some of these experiences that I am reading are just really awful
I wonder what this means for airports in other countries... I would hate to see TSA airport security practices be a trend. It was dismaying to see a budget for and the quick roll-out of body violator machines in Canada. The worst I've had is once when my navel piercing set off a handheld detector and YVR saw my nasty infected ring, gauzed and bandaged. :S Gross. Now that I think about it, I wish I'd unleashed this terror on a crazy TSA officer.
Does anyone have a similar peeve--removing winter boots!
Dec 27, 2012, 4:49 pm
#3345
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Some of these experiences that I am reading are just really awful I wonder what this means for airports in other countries... I would hate to see TSA airport security practices be a trend. It was dismaying to see a budget for and the quick roll-out of body violator machines in Canada.
The worst I've had is once when my navel piercing set off a handheld detector and YVR saw my nasty infected ring, gauzed and bandaged. :S Gross. Now that I think about it, I wish I'd unleashed this terror on a crazy TSA officer.
Does anyone have a similar peeve--removing winter boots!
I wonder what this means for airports in other countries... I would hate to see TSA airport security practices be a trend. It was dismaying to see a budget for and the quick roll-out of body violator machines in Canada. The worst I've had is once when my navel piercing set off a handheld detector and YVR saw my nasty infected ring, gauzed and bandaged. :S Gross. Now that I think about it, I wish I'd unleashed this terror on a crazy TSA officer.
Does anyone have a similar peeve--removing winter boots!
MMW is secondary based on random selection, mainly at US departure areas, and entirely voluntary in Canada. There is no TSA in Canada; it is CATSA. Shoe removal is only required at US departure areas in Canada. The US government mandated this, and it is frankly difficult for other countries to stand up to this bully and refuse, with the resulting consequences.
In 'rest of world', the experiences are generally good to very good, with a few exceptions. We haven't lost our heads and are being sensible, unlike America and the American public (the majority of whom seem to sound like you). Most of the world has not followed the lead of the US this time, and practices reasonable security. But that doesn't mean that many Americans (and even Canadians) simply decide to follow TSA guidelines and insist on removing shoes at 'rest of world' airports even when we tell them not to.