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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   SOP discussion (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1024410-sop-discussion.html)

willpolice4food Dec 9, 2009 9:49 am
Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12952927)
What "fall-out" will impact the "front-line TSOs and FAMs"? The TSA front-end and back-end stink in terms of effectiveness and this won't change -- for better or even worse -- the awful trend of the TSA engaging in mission creep and opposing efforts at transparency and accountability.
The point I was trying to make is that those who hold "the ring" do not have to face the wrath of the public (or terrorists). Now the good TSO has to deal with "Joe Public" in his face holding the SOP, and the FAM -- already in a "Secret Service semi-covert" position, has to grow another set of eyes in the back of his paranoid head.

jkhuggins Dec 9, 2009 10:05 am
Originally Posted by Associated Press
AP News Article

"WASHINGTON — An Obama administration official says some Transportation Security Administration employees have been placed on administrative leave after it was discovered that sensitive guidelines about airport passenger screening were posted on the Internet.
I thought the Federal goverment wasn't allowed to discuss disciplinary proceedings against TSA employees ... :rolleyes:

sbm12 Dec 9, 2009 10:09 am
I posted the timeline of the story from my POV this morning. Included in it are a whole bunch of links to the various places that the story is being covered, including:Those are roughly in chronological order.

I must say that watching the hit-count ticker on my blog stats roll over the way it has the past couple days has been entertaining. There usually aren't that many digits in the numbers.

bocastephen Dec 9, 2009 10:21 am
Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 12953876)
That's why we have to say NO to crap like "Team SFO" and return to Argenbright-like companies with little government interference and lots of accountability requirements.
Argenbright was hell - the only difference was you could slap them around without the police running over to intervene (mainly because the police weren't always hanging around checkpoints back then). The only positive was being able to escalate your issues to the airline or airport manager, because screener behavior and HR matters reported directly to them.

Our path to salvation will come via the introduction of new, effective and efficient (but not invasive) technology systems which will render the screening process quick, painless and minimize interaction with screening staff.

If TSA management didn't squander millions on silly uniforms or fancy award dinners, and knew how to manage vendor relationships, they could have tasked industry to create such devices by now - but we all know that's not their real priority, so they will never deliver.

Given their inability to effectively restrict the viewing of sensitive data on a simple document, my assumption about their ability to develop, test and implement complex security technology systems is right about nil.

ND Sol Dec 9, 2009 10:22 am
LA Times has an original story as well today that was picked up by the Houston Chronicle.

bocastephen Dec 9, 2009 10:23 am
Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 12954804)
I thought the Federal goverment wasn't allowed to discuss disciplinary proceedings against TSA employees ... :rolleyes:
Never underestimate the bite of a injured wild animal while it flails around. This beast is going to scream and snap at anything that moves until it feels the damage has been undermined.

FliesWay2Much Dec 9, 2009 10:26 am
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.138 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Originally Posted by Spiff
AP News Article

"WASHINGTON — An Obama administration official says some Transportation Security Administration employees have been placed on administrative leave after it was discovered that sensitive guidelines about airport passenger screening were posted on the Internet.

Assistant Homeland Security secretary David Heyman has told senators a full investigation into the security lapse is under way. Heyman says the Homeland Security Department is stopping the posting of documents with sensitive security information either in full or in part on the Internet until the TSA review is complete."

Big deal. The entire agency should be put on permanent leave.
My, this action seems extreme for an "obsolete" document??

First, we had "security theater.". Now, we have "administrative leave theater."

Spiff Dec 9, 2009 10:34 am
Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 12954934)
Argenbright was hell - the only difference was you could slap them around without the police running over to intervene (mainly because the police weren't always hanging around checkpoints back then). The only positive was being able to escalate your issues to the airline or airport manager, because screener behavior and HR matters reported directly to them.
Argenbright was just fine. They can use ETP/ETD to properly check for explosives and WTMD to check for firearms. The airline/airport manager should be over them; the federal government should stay the hell out of airport security except to bring a world of hurt onto screeners who step out of line or passengers who knowingly violate published federal laws.

Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 12954934)
Our path to salvation will come via the introduction of new, effective and efficient (but not invasive) technology systems which will render the screening process quick, painless and minimize interaction with screening staff.
Concur.

Trollkiller Dec 9, 2009 10:45 am
Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 12954804)
I thought the Federal goverment wasn't allowed to discuss disciplinary proceedings against TSA employees ... :rolleyes:
I hope it wasn't Blogger Bob that got suspended.

Boggie Dog Dec 9, 2009 11:12 am
Comment from a wise Fark poster:

"We took a bunch of minimum wage mall cops, gave them federal badges and mixed in an ...-ton of bureaucracy. It's not news, it's a predictable outcome."

warning1369 Dec 9, 2009 11:59 am
Originally Posted by amejr999 (Post 12936540)
Just a quick reminder that the SOP is labeled as SSI, and posting information from it on a public forum might expose you to personal liability. It's unlikely, but certainly possible.

Now... anyone know a reporter who wants a scoop?

You may laugh but I would be more worried for the folks who still have it on line that I am for the five people on paid vacation at TSA for posting it. TSA has over 300 lawyers alone (not including ones at DHS and other federal entities) and there is no permanent leadership at TSA so there are a lot of people looking to make a name for themselves. Getting all the web pages turned off or in some other legal trouble that still have it posted may be a way to make that name.

Spiff Dec 9, 2009 12:04 pm
Originally Posted by warning1369 (Post 12955555)
You may laugh but I would be more worried for the folks who still have it on line that I am for the five people on paid vacation at TSA for posting it. TSA has over 300 lawyers alone (not including ones at DHS and other federal entities) and there is no permanent leadership at TSA so there are a lot of people looking to make a name for themselves. Getting all the web pages turned off or in some other legal trouble that still have it posted may be a way to make that name.
Not going to happen. The horse is long gone.

Also, any non-US website is under no obligation to take orders from a US judge, assuming that one would be willing to issue such an order.

If there are 300 lawyers on the TSA payroll, then that's just one more reason that this disgusting, un-American agency should be destroyed.

N965VJ Dec 9, 2009 12:05 pm
Originally Posted by warning1369 (Post 12955555)
You may laugh but I would be more worried for the folks who still have it on line that I am for the five people on paid vacation at TSA for posting it.
You mean places like ABCNews.com that show what was reacted?

Boggie Dog Dec 9, 2009 12:08 pm
Originally Posted by warning1369 (Post 12955555)
You may laugh but I would be more worried for the folks who still have it on line that I am for the five people on paid vacation at TSA for posting it. TSA has over 300 lawyers alone (not including ones at DHS and other federal entities) and there is no permanent leadership at TSA so there are a lot of people looking to make a name for themselves. Getting all the web pages turned off or in some other legal trouble that still have it posted may be a way to make that name.
Why in the world would TSA need more than 300 lawyers when they have Francine the Googling Lawyer?

ND Sol Dec 9, 2009 12:11 pm
Originally Posted by warning1369 (Post 12955555)
You may laugh but I would be more worried for the folks who still have it on line that I am for the five people on paid vacation at TSA for posting it. TSA has over 300 lawyers alone (not including ones at DHS and other federal entities) and there is no permanent leadership at TSA so there are a lot of people looking to make a name for themselves. Getting all the web pages turned off or in some other legal trouble that still have it posted may be a way to make that name.
cf. Pentagon Papers.

And thanks for telling us that it was five placed on administrative leave. You may now be on the line for disclosing that info. :eek:


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