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-   -   SOP discussion (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1024410-sop-discussion.html)

RadioGirl Dec 8, 2009 10:17 pm


Originally Posted by Random_Flyer (Post 12952128)
Of course, if it's hidden then it allows the TSA to do pretty much anything it wants and claim "SOP" yet have the claim be unverifiable.

Ding, ding! We have a winner! @:-)

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 12952239)
If Idiot Boy had said, "this document should have been open to the public", I might have had a modicum of respect for the little shoe pervert.

The day you develop any respect for Idiot Boy, the universe will disappear into a singularity. Please, Spiff, for the sake of humanity itself, stick with:

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 12952239)
...manure-for-brains Hawley ... The disgusting Shoe Pervert named Kip Hawley who is directly responsible for the Shoe Carnival and the Liquids Idiocy can go straight to hell.

:D

LoganTSO Dec 8, 2009 10:54 pm

I'm surprised Bruce Schneier hasn't said anything yet.

Also, I didn't know bdschobel would be suggested second after Schneier by Google. Then again, I didn't know he was that well known outside of FT. ;)

RadioGirl Dec 8, 2009 11:12 pm


Originally Posted by LoganTSO (Post 12952591)
I'm surprised Bruce Schneier hasn't said anything yet.

He's probably laughing too hard to type. :D And what could he say that hasn't already been said?

GUWonder Dec 8, 2009 11:15 pm

The clown news network -- better known as CNN -- is saying this is a how-to-guide for terrorists and the biggest breach of airport security since 9/11.

Do these clowns not realize that competent terrorists aren't being stopped by the TSA and that airport security screeners weren't tasked to stop the terrorists or the weapons used by the terrorists on 9/11?

Do these clowns not realize that the TSA is already a big failure in reliably stopping weapons and explosives? The TSA's repeated failure to properly screen out for all weapons and explosives -- or the components for such -- is a far bigger threat to security than even the TSA's accidental transparency.

Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get.

willpolice4food Dec 9, 2009 12:08 am

CNN Anderson Cooper 360
 
Re: CNN Anderson Cooper 360 show, 12/8

On CNN, it was nice to hear fired TSA Federal Air Marshal whistleblower, Robert MacLean, give a shout-out to the front-line TSOs and FAMs who now have to deal with the fall-out from their senior executives' colossal EF-up.

While Gale Rossides and her cronies hide in the "Arlington Ivory Towers," waiting for Erroll Southers to kick them out the door with phat pensions (only to go work at cushy neo-con firms collecting a second 6-figure salary)...the TSOs, FAMs, and LEOs get to shovel their sheeOUGHT.

GUWonder Dec 9, 2009 12:37 am


Originally Posted by willpolice4food (Post 12952864)
Re: CNN Anderson Cooper 360 show, 12/8

On CNN, it was nice to hear fired TSA Federal Air Marshal whistleblower, Robert MacLean, give a shout-out to the front-line TSOs and FAMs who now have to deal with the fall-out from their senior executives' colossal EF-up.

While Gale Rossides and her cronies hide in the "Arlington Ivory Towers," waiting for Erroll Southers to kick them out the door with phat pensions (only to go work at cushy neo-con firms collecting a second 6-figure salary)...the TSOs, FAMs, and LEOs get to shovel their sheeOUGHT.

What "fall-out" will impact the "front-line TSOs and FAMs"? The TSA front-end and back-end stink in terms of effectiveness and this won't change -- for better or even worse -- the awful trend of the TSA engaging in mission creep and opposing efforts at transparency and accountability.

Centurion Dec 9, 2009 2:22 am

Redacted. I hope some men in suits do not show up wanting my computers;)

Mats Dec 9, 2009 3:02 am

"Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get."
Wow, GUWonder, that was beautifully written. I do not believe in mystique-based security.

The SOP document didn't really contain anything earth-shattering. In fact, I think we pretty much knew most of what was written in there. But the idea that the TSA is so inept with document security highlights their failures as an organization.

The SOP also deflates the TSA's frequent arrogance about "sensitive" information. During confrontations, TSA staff have often pointed to "secret" knowledge, as if they operate in a precise, data and evidence driven environment.

I'm pleased with any bad press about the TSA, and they're getting plenty of it. This is all happening around the holidays, when more people are exposed to the frustrating nature of screening, and may help dig a greater hole for the TSA in the court of public opinion.

What troubles me is that the TSA might respond by making screening even more onerous. They may want to try to veil their incompetence by even more pointless ID inspections, overzealous inspection of prostheses, etc.

pmocek Dec 9, 2009 3:51 am


Originally Posted by willpolice4food (Post 12952864)
On CNN, it was nice to hear fired TSA Federal Air Marshal whistleblower, Robert MacLean, give a shout-out to the front-line TSOs and FAMs who now have to deal with the fall-out from their senior executives' colossal EF-up.

Fallout like the people they work for seeing their job descriptions and having the ability to know when they're doing their jobs wrong or simply lying to us? If you think that's fallout, imagine what their jobs would be like if we could read the all rules we're required to follow at the checkpoint. They might never catch us doing anything considered to be dangerous... because we'd know not to do those things.

FliesWay2Much Dec 9, 2009 3:55 am

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.138 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

This incident is the best thing that ever happened to Tiger Woods. :-)

AngryMiller Dec 9, 2009 5:24 am


Originally Posted by Mats (Post 12953201)
"Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get."
Wow, GUWonder, that was beautifully written. I do not believe in mystique-based security.

The SOP document didn't really contain anything earth-shattering. In fact, I think we pretty much knew most of what was written in there. But the idea that the TSA is so inept with document security highlights their failures as an organization.

The SOP also deflates the TSA's frequent arrogance about "sensitive" information. During confrontations, TSA staff have often pointed to "secret" knowledge, as if they operate in a precise, data and evidence driven environment.

I'm pleased with any bad press about the TSA, and they're getting plenty of it. This is all happening around the holidays, when more people are exposed to the frustrating nature of screening, and may help dig a greater hole for the TSA in the court of public opinion.

What troubles me is that the TSA might respond by making screening even more onerous. They may want to try to veil their incompetence by even more pointless ID inspections, overzealous inspection of prostheses, etc.

If TSA overreacts to this public embarrassment and throws 'emergency' screening measures into play then you can pretty much guarantee that there's going to be a backlash with the not-so frequent fliers.

Some of the news articles make this the greatest security leak since the Rosenburgs, when we know that document had nothing surprising in it.

amejr999 Dec 9, 2009 6:05 am

Senate Homeland Security Committee is holding a hearing at 9:30 AM today called "Five Years After the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA): Stopping Terrorist Travel". Should be entertaining:

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index...3-820344cf8be0

halls120 Dec 9, 2009 6:54 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12952681)
The clown news network -- better known as CNN -- is saying this is a how-to-guide for terrorists and the biggest breach of airport security since 9/11.

Do these clowns not realize that competent terrorists aren't being stopped by the TSA and that airport security screeners weren't tasked to stop the terrorists or the weapons used by the terrorists on 9/11?

Do these clowns not realize that the TSA is already a big failure in reliably stopping weapons and explosives? The TSA's repeated failure to properly screen out for all weapons and explosives -- or the components for such -- is a far bigger threat to security than even the TSA's accidental transparency.

Airport security doesn't come via obscurity. Transparency -- an anathema to the TSA -- is a must for accountability and systematic performance improvements in aviation security. This is something that the TSA and the unnecessarily paranoid talking heads on TV don't get.

^^

the best summary of the whole TSA situation I've read in a long time. You should apply for the job as TSA Administrator.

IslandBased Dec 9, 2009 7:09 am


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 12953738)
^^

the best summary of the whole TSA situation I've read in a long time. You should apply for the job as TSA Administrator.

Absolutely right about GUWonder's post ^

Shouldn't that be "the thankless job"?

Leading TSA would be about as rewarding as leading the charge of the Light Brigade.

Spiff Dec 9, 2009 7:15 am


Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 12953791)
Leading TSA would be about as rewarding as leading the charge of the Light Brigade.

Not at all.

"We are returning airport security to private security screeners."

"All TSA employees are fired."


Done deal.


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