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Originally Posted by Trollkiller
(Post 12944391)
Care to expand on this part?
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management. Might be wrong, but that was the impression. |
Originally Posted by pmocek
(Post 12943846)
In cases like this, what crime would the police officer be accusing the passenger of having committed were he to arrest as threatened?
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Originally Posted by AngryMiller
(Post 12944486)
Usually at MSP the checkpoint is noisy with TSOs chatting with each other and the passengers. Not so today. Very quiet. Most of the time both of my bags get torn apart for additional searches. Today, just a quick run through the x-ray machine and off I go. No smiles on any of the TSOs.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management. Might be wrong, but that was the impression. |
Originally Posted by AngryMiller
(Post 12944486)
Usually at MSP the checkpoint is noisy with TSOs chatting with each other and the passengers. Not so today. Very quiet. Most of the time both of my bags get torn apart for additional searches. Today, just a quick run through the x-ray machine and off I go. No smiles on any of the TSOs.
Just from past experience, they behaved as though they had all been given a 'serious as a heart attack' speech from management. Might be wrong, but that was the impression. Did anyone else that flew today have a similar experience? |
Originally Posted by SATTSO
(Post 12944519)
It's very rare. Only when the pax has become so disruptive to the screening process and causes a disturbance at the checkpoint. Most often what I have seen, and been a TSO involved in, the pax ask for a STSO, still refuses screening of their property, a LEO is summoned, and the LEO basically says (my words now) screening will continue, TSA will finish their procedures, then you can leave. The LEO stays and watches, but that's about it.
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Originally Posted by bonoman
(Post 12944560)
That doesn't answer Phil's question. Also, what if said pax refuses to allow the search to continue?
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Originally Posted by bonoman
(Post 12944560)
That doesn't answer Phil's question. Also, what if said pax refuses to allow the search to continue?
As to your second question, I have yet to see anyone refuse the police, and at that point they actually can't refuse. If the police take over and do the search it is no longer a 4th amendment search. At this point I believe the police have probable cause. Just a guess, not a lawyer here, and can only tell you what I have actually seen. |
Originally Posted by SATTSO
(Post 12944626)
But if I had to guess it is what I said: they disrupted the screening process.
Originally Posted by SATTSO
(Post 12944626)
If the police take over and do the search it is no longer a 4th amendment search. At this point I believe the police have probable cause.
I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal. |
Originally Posted by bonoman
(Post 12944690)
So the LEO would issue a citation for...?
Probable cause based on what? Just because someone *may* be in possession of something that's not allowed to go on a plane in no way automatically incriminates them of something else. I can walk into a courthouse, forget I have a swiss army knife in my pocket when I walk through the WTMD there and if I pull it out and say I'm going to return this to my car, I'm not arrested or searched further because the deputies want to abuse probable cause. I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal. |
Originally Posted by SATTSO
(Post 12944725)
No, it is actually a crime to disrupt the screening process. Not my opinion; fact.
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Originally Posted by bonoman
(Post 12944560)
Also, what if said pax refuses to allow the search to continue?
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis. United States v. Aukai Plus some background info: http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 |
Originally Posted by SATTSO
(Post 12944725)
No, it is actually a crime to disrupt the screening process. Not my opinion; fact.
Straight from one end of the horse and TSA (pdf warning). |
Originally Posted by bonoman
(Post 12944690)
So the LEO would issue a citation for...?
Probable cause based on what? Just because someone *may* be in possession of something that's not allowed to go on a plane in no way automatically incriminates them of something else. I can walk into a courthouse, forget I have a swiss army knife in my pocket when I walk through the WTMD there and if I pull it out and say I'm going to return this to my car, I'm not arrested or searched further because the deputies want to abuse probable cause. I'm amazed at how quickly its assumed again that everyone is a criminal. |
Originally Posted by LoganTSO
(Post 12944744)
You can't. Screening must be completed no matter what. And it's legal as there was a court case pertaining to this very issue, I just can't remember the parties so I'm searching for it right now.
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis. United States v. Aukai Plus some background info: http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 |
Originally Posted by LoganTSO
(Post 12944744)
You can't. Screening must be completed no matter what. And it's legal as there was a court case pertaining to this very issue, I just can't remember the parties so I'm searching for it right now.
EDIT: FOUND IT! Gotta love LexisNexis. United States v. Aukai Plus some background info: http://fourthamendment.com/blog/inde...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 Translation: you can't claim that something found after you express the desire to leave in inadmissible due to your consent being revoked. |
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