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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old May 20, 2017, 3:23 pm
  #706  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hilton Plastic, Delta Silver Emeritus
Posts: 1,037
Originally Posted by GiantCow
Do you need to have an account with them to check for pre-approvals?
I do, so I'm not sure.
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Old May 20, 2017, 4:33 pm
  #707  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by nychad10
Looking for input...
What do you think I should do...

50 days ago I applied for and was instantly approved for CSP card. 45 days ago applied for and after a phone call 30 days ago approved for Business Ink.
Met spending criteria for both....

Do i apply for the CSR now or hold off?
If You say hold off is that for all Chase cards?
If so do I move on to another card or just sit tight for an amount of time??

Only hard pulls are from both Chase cards (in lat 5 years), pay off cards what i receive statements, just under 800 credit score...
Was in a similar situation. Have the CSR (Feb 17), Amazon Prime Rewards (Mar 17), and Freedom cards (Mar 17). Tried applying for CSP last week, but received a message stating "We have received your request for a Chase credit card. We'll let you know our decision by U.S. mail. This could take up to 30 days. " Too many, too soon? Currently at 4/24.
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Old May 21, 2017, 12:39 pm
  #708  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: Far too many
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Becoming an "Account Manager" on someone else's Amex card

Will becoming the account manager on another person's American Express Card count as opening a card for 5/24 purposes?

Please respond with your own experience.

Thanks!
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Old May 21, 2017, 5:35 pm
  #709  
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Posts: 25,933
Originally Posted by travel light
Will becoming the account manager on another person's American Express Card count as opening a card for 5/24 purposes?

Please respond with your own experience.

Thanks!
You should ask in Amex forum, because whether it counts as opening a card for 5/24 purposes totally depends on whether it's reported to your credit report as a new bank card account. But Chase forum people are not likely to know that (i've never earn heard term "account manager" in this context before, so I think may be done pretty rarely?), only (some) Amex forum people will know that, and that's why this question belongs (asked in credit report terms, not in 5/24 terms) in the Amex forum, not here.

The only way Chase counts 5/24 (for non-Chase cards at least) is to count the bank card accounts that show on your credit report with an "opened on" date in the past 24 months. So you can tell what counts toward 5/24 or not yourself by examining your own credit report.

Cards you are an authorized user on may count initially, but you may able to get recon to remove them from the count. But I have no idea how "account manager" differs from the much more common "authorized user", because this "account manager" might be an Amex-specific term?
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Old May 21, 2017, 5:52 pm
  #710  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SFO
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by travel light
Will becoming the account manager on another person's American Express Card count as opening a card for 5/24 purposes?

Please respond with your own experience.

Thanks!
In my experience, no. I have been added as account manager on several of my wife's Amex cards and that has never caused them to show up on any of my credit reports.
adlibitum is offline  
Old May 22, 2017, 6:24 am
  #711  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
Originally Posted by nychad10
Looking for input...
What do you think I should do...

50 days ago I applied for and was instantly approved for CSP card. 45 days ago applied for and after a phone call 30 days ago approved for Business Ink.
Met spending criteria for both....

Do i apply for the CSR now or hold off?
If You say hold off is that for all Chase cards?
If so do I move on to another card or just sit tight for an amount of time??

Only hard pulls are from both Chase cards (in lat 5 years), pay off cards what i receive statements, just under 800 credit score...
if you apply now, you run the risk of getting denied. Personally, I would wait a couple of months before applying for the CSR.
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Old May 23, 2017, 7:21 am
  #712  
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: AA - EP, Marriott - PP
Posts: 227
I was all set to get the CIP as my next card, and then I ran across a couple data points on reddit that suggest Chase will only allow one UR business card per person/business. Is this a new rule/rule I'm not aware of so far?

I understand the 5/24 (I'm 3/24); being 0/30 (no Chase applications since 1/2017, and only application since then was an AMEX SPG business in 4/2017). I currently have an Ink Cash open for my cell bills and would be willing to close it if it will prevent me from the CIP - after all I could always downgrade in a year.
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Old May 23, 2017, 8:03 am
  #713  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,536
Just another point of info for the United Mileage Plus Explorer card. Roomate was approved, but during the app process, after he logged into his Mileage Plus account, he saw the 70k miles offer. He called and the app guy said he had to wait until he got the card and then to call the customer service # on the card.

He got the card, called the Customer Service # and they said that he needed to call Chase (so apparently customer service for the Chase card is not Chase?).

So he called Chase and they said they would honor the 70k miles but he has to spent the 3k FIRST and THEN call back again and then they'll adjust the miles.
hurnik is offline  
Old May 23, 2017, 8:20 am
  #714  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,066
So, I tried downgrading my Sapphire Preferred to Freedom today and the customer service person said I needed to have the card for a year (unless I wanted to downgrade to a regular Sapphire card) before I could change it to a Freedom. Is this new? I've had the card opened for 8 months now.
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Old May 23, 2017, 9:42 am
  #715  
mia
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Most issuers do not permit product changes during the first 12 months after issue because the Federal C.A.R.D. Act prohibits changing the terms during that period.
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Old May 23, 2017, 10:13 am
  #716  
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Applied for a Hyatt and got a "we'll think about it" response. Called the recon line and they validated a bunch of earning info and whatnot, then put me on a long hold, and came back and said it still had to go through a second review.

I have a CSR and a Freedom card that we use heavily. Hopefully it gets approved.

Neil
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Old May 23, 2017, 11:10 am
  #717  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,066
Originally Posted by mia
Most issuers do not permit product changes during the first 12 months after issue because the Federal C.A.R.D. Act prohibits changing the terms during that period.
That is interesting. This must be new as I've converted cards to non-fee cards before. Chase was open to converting to a regular Sapphire card by not a Freedom card. Setting an alert for September when 1 year anniversary hits. AF hits October 1.
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Old May 23, 2017, 3:28 pm
  #718  
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Posts: 25,933
Originally Posted by robbierob03
I was all set to get the CIP as my next card, and then I ran across a couple data points on reddit that suggest Chase will only allow one UR business card per person/business. Is this a new rule/rule I'm not aware of so far?

I understand the 5/24 (I'm 3/24); being 0/30 (no Chase applications since 1/2017, and only application since then was an AMEX SPG business in 4/2017). I currently have an Ink Cash open for my cell bills and would be willing to close it if it will prevent me from the CIP - after all I could always downgrade in a year.
The details of data points matter. The problem I have with the Reddit threads I've seen is that nobody drills down to get more detail from the datapoints, and to point out which datapoints have too little detail to be useful.

I thus suggest you ignore Reddit threads which don't provide detail.

A crucial piece of detail: First UR business card or not, Chase is known to deny people if they call in about a pending business card application. So did those people who reported the denial for a 2nd UR business card call when asked to do so or not??? That could make all the difference.

Next crucial piece of detail: How you fill out the information about your business on a business card application can make a difference in how likely you are to be approved. Did those people who got denied explain how they filled out the application forum (years in business, annual business income, business name, business address, etc)?

(While Barclays is not Chase, and every bank has different policies, I still suggest you take a look at this thread for context about how sometimes telling the truth about your business on a credit card app may be worse than telling the right lie: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...ness-card.html)

So you see, just knowing that someone got denied for a Chase business card is no big news, unless you know for sure that they crossed all their T's and dotted all their I's. And thus it's very hard to know what the reason for a Chase business card denial might have really been (but that doesn't stop some people from jumping to conclusions).
sdsearch is offline  
Old May 23, 2017, 3:45 pm
  #719  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,904
Originally Posted by robbierob03
I was all set to get the CIP as my next card, and then I ran across a couple data points on reddit that suggest Chase will only allow one UR business card per person/business. Is this a new rule/rule I'm not aware of so far?

I understand the 5/24 (I'm 3/24); being 0/30 (no Chase applications since 1/2017, and only application since then was an AMEX SPG business in 4/2017). I currently have an Ink Cash open for my cell bills and would be willing to close it if it will prevent me from the CIP - after all I could always downgrade in a year.
I opened a UA business card this year although I have Ink.
rrgg is online now  
Old May 24, 2017, 1:22 am
  #720  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 124
Originally Posted by hurnik
Just another point of info for the United Mileage Plus Explorer card. Roomate was approved, but during the app process, after he logged into his Mileage Plus account, he saw the 70k miles offer. He called and the app guy said he had to wait until he got the card and then to call the customer service # on the card.

He got the card, called the Customer Service # and they said that he needed to call Chase (so apparently customer service for the Chase card is not Chase?).

So he called Chase and they said they would honor the 70k miles but he has to spent the 3k FIRST and THEN call back again and then they'll adjust the miles.
Yea that's been my experience, as well. Just have roommate take screen shots of the 70k offer as proof, for reference. In the midst of matching that extra 20k for a family member right now.

As for calling CS -- there are two phone numbers on the card, perhaps roomate called United CS rather than Chase CS
prech is offline  


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