Sep 4, 2015, 8:47 am
Last edit by: beltway
This thread is now archived. For ongoing discussion and the current/updated wiki, see Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017 onward. For the archived predecessor thread, see Applying for Chase Credit Cards- Archived 2008-5/2015
Archived: Applying for Chase Credit Cards- May 2015- Jan 2017
Aug 4, 2015, 5:23 pm
#1126
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: BAEC Silver, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 407
Given you have a credit card for 3 years, you probably have a decent credit history. Not stellar but nothing concerning. Your credit score is also great and if anything the car loan will only add to your history.
Personally I would apply for both cards at the same time. There haven't been many recent reports about applying for 2 Chase cards at the same time but given you only have 1 card and its 3 years old I don't see you having any problem. I would apply for the Sapphire first followed by the Freedom (same day of course) but that's just me and it could be switched if you prefer it. Basically apply for the card you want most first and then do the second application from there just incase they don't approve the 2nd one (since you will be starting a new relationship with them it may reject the 2nd application until you've established a 6-12 months history with them).
I would then proceed to open like 6 more cards on the same day with other banks but that's just me
If you do that open Citi next because they can be sensitive to the number of inquiries followed by Barclay and Amex....But keep in mind if you get denied for your 2nd Chase card and you really want that card it may be worth holding off on other apps until you wait out 6-12 months and re-apply for that Chase card. You might get away with a few apps in the mean time with other banks (maybe 3ish?)
Personally I would apply for both cards at the same time. There haven't been many recent reports about applying for 2 Chase cards at the same time but given you only have 1 card and its 3 years old I don't see you having any problem. I would apply for the Sapphire first followed by the Freedom (same day of course) but that's just me and it could be switched if you prefer it. Basically apply for the card you want most first and then do the second application from there just incase they don't approve the 2nd one (since you will be starting a new relationship with them it may reject the 2nd application until you've established a 6-12 months history with them).
I would then proceed to open like 6 more cards on the same day with other banks but that's just me
If you do that open Citi next because they can be sensitive to the number of inquiries followed by Barclay and Amex....But keep in mind if you get denied for your 2nd Chase card and you really want that card it may be worth holding off on other apps until you wait out 6-12 months and re-apply for that Chase card. You might get away with a few apps in the mean time with other banks (maybe 3ish?)I am also considering applying for Amex Platinum, but I'm waiting for them to send me the 100K offer again. I've gotten it a few times already but didn't really want the perks until now. I'm thinking of holding off on the two Chase cards so I can apply for all 3 cards at the same time.
Aug 4, 2015, 6:16 pm
#1127
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 531
I don't know how they end up with these models, but they're not in the business of losing money.
That being said, they know how to spot risky behavior, and will stop you well before you max out everything if you start charging in a short time period way in excess of your normal spending. Now, letting your balance grow up to your CL naturally through interest- that's their moneymaker.
Aug 4, 2015, 8:09 pm
#1128
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 116
It's not clear whether the 5/24 policy is exactly 5 or exactly 24. It's not clear, last I heard, whether it applies to business cards. It doesn't seem to yet apply to most (if any) partner (ie, non-UR) cards.
I also don't know if all people know whether it's the 5/24 policy alone and/or something else they're rejected for. Chase has a longer-running policy against people who are "only in it for the [signup] rewards", which involves mostly how people have used any Chase cards they've had in the past (not cards with other banks). To know whether you've been rejected for 5/24 alone, you have to have no just been spending on the minimum spend for signup bonuses on previous Chase cards and then putting them in the drawer until you cancel them. How many people apply for way more than 5 total cards in 24 months, and yet put some "everyday" spending on every Chase card they have? (Most active churners are too busy meeting minimum spend on some other card to come back and put some activity on every Chase card they hold, and so they end up susceptible to rejection under both the new 5/24 policy and the older "only in it for the [signup] rewards" policy.)
I also don't know if all people know whether it's the 5/24 policy alone and/or something else they're rejected for. Chase has a longer-running policy against people who are "only in it for the [signup] rewards", which involves mostly how people have used any Chase cards they've had in the past (not cards with other banks). To know whether you've been rejected for 5/24 alone, you have to have no just been spending on the minimum spend for signup bonuses on previous Chase cards and then putting them in the drawer until you cancel them. How many people apply for way more than 5 total cards in 24 months, and yet put some "everyday" spending on every Chase card they have? (Most active churners are too busy meeting minimum spend on some other card to come back and put some activity on every Chase card they hold, and so they end up susceptible to rejection under both the new 5/24 policy and the older "only in it for the [signup] rewards" policy.)
As for your theory that churners are being detected in other ways, I was rejected without having closed a single credit card in the last five years and having only ever had a single Chase card which was still open and receiving daily use.
So, while I highly doubt it, I'm open to the possibility that Chase straight up lied (not only on my letter, but both a "standard" and senior underwriter as well over the phone) about why they rejected me. But there was no indication of churning or reward seeking on my credit reports when they sent me that rejection letter for the Slate (which isn't even a rewards card!)
Aug 4, 2015, 9:24 pm
#1129
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: PetCo Pals Rewards
Posts: 531
So, while I highly doubt it, I'm open to the possibility that Chase straight up lied (not only on my letter, but both a "standard" and senior underwriter as well over the phone) about why they rejected me. But there was no indication of churning or reward seeking on my credit reports when they sent me that rejection letter for the Slate (which isn't even a rewards card!)
Aug 4, 2015, 11:39 pm
#1130
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 116
I get ya. And, like I said, I'm open to that possibility. However, they had no problem approving a $20k United card on the same recon they aggressively refused the Slate under the 5/24 rule. So, in my case, I'm fairly confident it was all about the dozen or so new accounts in the last year.
Aug 5, 2015, 12:29 am
#1131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,762
Plenty of re-rejection datapoints. I don't know think there's a single success datapoint for unambiguous violation of 5/24 (ie, not on the borderline of 5 depending on how you count, and not with AUs muddying it up) on a personal UR card.
It's not clear whether the 5/24 policy is exactly 5 or exactly 24. It's not clear, last I heard, whether it applies to business cards. It doesn't seem to yet apply to most (if any) partner (ie, non-UR) cards.
I also don't know if all people know whether it's the 5/24 policy alone and/or something else they're rejected for. Chase has a longer-running policy against people who are "only in it for the [signup] rewards", which involves mostly how people have used any Chase cards they've had in the past (not cards with other banks). To know whether you've been rejected for 5/24 alone, you have to have no just been spending on the minimum spend for signup bonuses on previous Chase cards and then putting them in the drawer until you cancel them. How many people apply for way more than 5 total cards in 24 months, and yet put some "everyday" spending on every Chase card they have? (Most active churners are too busy meeting minimum spend on some other card to come back and put some activity on every Chase card they hold, and so they end up susceptible to rejection under both the new 5/24 policy and the older "only in it for the [signup] rewards" policy.)
It's not clear whether the 5/24 policy is exactly 5 or exactly 24. It's not clear, last I heard, whether it applies to business cards. It doesn't seem to yet apply to most (if any) partner (ie, non-UR) cards.
I also don't know if all people know whether it's the 5/24 policy alone and/or something else they're rejected for. Chase has a longer-running policy against people who are "only in it for the [signup] rewards", which involves mostly how people have used any Chase cards they've had in the past (not cards with other banks). To know whether you've been rejected for 5/24 alone, you have to have no just been spending on the minimum spend for signup bonuses on previous Chase cards and then putting them in the drawer until you cancel them. How many people apply for way more than 5 total cards in 24 months, and yet put some "everyday" spending on every Chase card they have? (Most active churners are too busy meeting minimum spend on some other card to come back and put some activity on every Chase card they hold, and so they end up susceptible to rejection under both the new 5/24 policy and the older "only in it for the [signup] rewards" policy.)
You keep stating that the 24 portion of 5/24 is still uncertain. The rejection letter they said states 2 years specifically - "Too many credit cards opened in the last 2 years." The 5 may be debatable (though appears pretty solid), the 24 months is as engraved in stone as anything in the cc app world is.
As for your theory that churners are being detected in other ways, I was rejected without having closed a single credit card in the last five years and having only ever had a single Chase card which was still open and receiving daily use.
So, while I highly doubt it, I'm open to the possibility that Chase straight up lied (not only on my letter, but both a "standard" and senior underwriter as well over the phone) about why they rejected me. But there was no indication of churning or reward seeking on my credit reports when they sent me that rejection letter for the Slate (which isn't even a rewards card!)
As for your theory that churners are being detected in other ways, I was rejected without having closed a single credit card in the last five years and having only ever had a single Chase card which was still open and receiving daily use.
So, while I highly doubt it, I'm open to the possibility that Chase straight up lied (not only on my letter, but both a "standard" and senior underwriter as well over the phone) about why they rejected me. But there was no indication of churning or reward seeking on my credit reports when they sent me that rejection letter for the Slate (which isn't even a rewards card!)
I get ya. And, like I said, I'm open to that possibility. However, they had no problem approving a $20k United card on the same recon they aggressively refused the Slate under the 5/24 rule. So, in my case,I'm fairly confident it was all about the dozen or so new accounts in the last year.
Although I dont understand why you want a Slate as you said, it does not earn any reward? Would this be the back door way to get back CSP via PC? Otherwise, why Slate?
Aug 5, 2015, 2:21 am
#1132
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 116
) as my next two years travel is already covered by existing card sign-up bonuses.
Aug 5, 2015, 2:55 am
#1133
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: HH Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 252
I get ya. And, like I said, I'm open to that possibility. However, they had no problem approving a $20k United card on the same recon they aggressively refused the Slate under the 5/24 rule. So, in my case, I'm fairly confident it was all about the dozen or so new accounts in the last year.
So yes I do think the rules for Chase "in-house" cards are more stringent than they are for the UR cards (although Slate isn't an UR card it is owned by Chase). Again I don't think we have any data points from anyone that was able to overturn a Chase Slate, CSP, or Freedom denial without having an analyst re-consider without AU's in the "count". On the other hand there are multiple reports including my own in which a co-branded card denial was overturned by a senior analyst even though there were more than 6 cards opened (actually for many even automatic approval as we have seen)
Aug 5, 2015, 2:59 am
#1134
Join Date: Oct 2013
Programs: HH Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Silver
Posts: 252
Thanks for the info. I do have a Chase Checking account for over 3 years as well, so I'm not a new customer to them. I guess that can only help for a Chase CC application. Do you think I should wait for higher introductory offers than the current $100/40K for Freedom/CSP respectively or just apply when I'm ready?
I am also considering applying for Amex Platinum, but I'm waiting for them to send me the 100K offer again. I've gotten it a few times already but didn't really want the perks until now. I'm thinking of holding off on the two Chase cards so I can apply for all 3 cards at the same time.
I am also considering applying for Amex Platinum, but I'm waiting for them to send me the 100K offer again. I've gotten it a few times already but didn't really want the perks until now. I'm thinking of holding off on the two Chase cards so I can apply for all 3 cards at the same time.
Aug 5, 2015, 4:49 am
#1135
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: ATL
Posts: 127
Just a data point...
Relatively new to the hobby so while I had 5 new cards in the past 24 months, I had one in November 2013 and 4 this year -- Delta Gold Amex in March, Chase Marriott in April, 2 Alaska Airlines cards with 2BM in May.
Maybe it was because my fifth one was so long ago, or again it could be the 5/24 isn't a hard and fast rule, but I applied and was approved for both the CSP and Freedom last night.
Relatively new to the hobby so while I had 5 new cards in the past 24 months, I had one in November 2013 and 4 this year -- Delta Gold Amex in March, Chase Marriott in April, 2 Alaska Airlines cards with 2BM in May.
Maybe it was because my fifth one was so long ago, or again it could be the 5/24 isn't a hard and fast rule, but I applied and was approved for both the CSP and Freedom last night.
Aug 5, 2015, 8:36 am
#1136
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: AA BA CO DL UA US
Posts: 815
Last time wife applied for a Chase credit card (Southwest) in January 2015, she had to close down her Marriott card, as the recon said she has too many credit cards with Chase. Since then, she has applied for a Citi in March and another Citi in May 2015.
Wife has a long history with Chase and currently have the a total of 4 Chase cards, and has applied for a total of 4 Chase cards in the last two years. Total applications in the last 2 years came to 12 cards. (2 cards in the last 6 months - the two Citi cards mentioned above.) How safety is it to apply for another Chase (Southwest, Hyatt, NOT Sapphire type) card now? Should she wait a little longer?
Wife has a long history with Chase and currently have the a total of 4 Chase cards, and has applied for a total of 4 Chase cards in the last two years. Total applications in the last 2 years came to 12 cards. (2 cards in the last 6 months - the two Citi cards mentioned above.) How safety is it to apply for another Chase (Southwest, Hyatt, NOT Sapphire type) card now? Should she wait a little longer?
Last edited by opus2002; Aug 5, 2015 at 9:07 am
Aug 5, 2015, 10:34 am
#1137
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: ORD
Programs: AAdvantage, UA, Avios
Posts: 637
Aug 5, 2015, 12:00 pm
#1138
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: JZRO
Posts: 9,169
It's not that Chase is flagging "churners" per se. Chase is flagging "reward chasers." The number of cards one has, or their complement, etc., could fit a "chaser profile," even if one has never churned a card. Nobody knows.
Aug 5, 2015, 12:55 pm
#1139
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 3,677
Ah but they are not. If you got 5 new cards 23 months ago, have them all still open, and have spent $10K a month on each of them for the past 23 months, you will be disqualified for a UR card. But if you have only gotten 4 cards in the past 24 months, and have spent virtually nothing on them beyond the minimum spend, and yet have excellent credit, you have an very good chance of being approved. Rewards chasing is not being targeted, but churning lots of cards certainly is leading to auto denials.
Aug 5, 2015, 2:07 pm
#1140
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: PetCo Pals Rewards
Posts: 531
Just a data point...
Relatively new to the hobby so while I had 5 new cards in the past 24 months, I had one in November 2013 and 4 this year -- Delta Gold Amex in March, Chase Marriott in April, 2 Alaska Airlines cards with 2BM in May.
Maybe it was because my fifth one was so long ago, or again it could be the 5/24 isn't a hard and fast rule, but I applied and was approved for both the CSP and Freedom last night.
Relatively new to the hobby so while I had 5 new cards in the past 24 months, I had one in November 2013 and 4 this year -- Delta Gold Amex in March, Chase Marriott in April, 2 Alaska Airlines cards with 2BM in May.
Maybe it was because my fifth one was so long ago, or again it could be the 5/24 isn't a hard and fast rule, but I applied and was approved for both the CSP and Freedom last night.
Welcome back Brugge! Your presence here has been much missed.