QRC3288

Yea, something I'll add about SQ is those cheap biz fares sometimes allow a stopover. Even more expensive SQ J fares to Europe ex HKG are in the 4-5k range. Well, what I can do is arrange one of my required Singapore trips and link it up with a Europe trip.

It's true, I pay up for nonstops.

But Where CX loses the plot is that I can do business in Japan, Korea and most definitely Singapore. Dubai. Even Taiwan too. So if a competitor offers a "connecting" fare where I can stopover, I really can do two trips for one. EK even has some decent F fares ex-HKG who h allow this. I've been faced with this logic before: spend 6k USD on CX nonstop to Europe in J, or spend 8k on EK F which will include one of my annual business trips to Dubai AND Europe, and offer me total flexibility on my return city from Europe plus usually a much greater number of flights. Note to CX: I didn't pick you.

The launching pad is a real thing. CX just needs to wake up a lot of their fares aren't competitive ex HKG, although they are darn competitive from a lot of outports.

I really wish CX would offer those of us in HKG some better cash F rates. As in, those of us who pay the bills and don't work for someone paying on our behalf (in many cases, with deep corporate rates negotiated). Maybe that's better for CX but they are leaving money on the table with me for sure as a result.

Aus106080

It is just simply because Singapore airline feels hard to fill in plane and needs to offer more attractive fare for stopover customers.
It applies to cathay also. Cathay always offer very attractive fare to stopover customers.

I think Cathay clearly feel that now and have a large scale lay-off to lower the fixed cost.

Aus106080

Ex-SIN for SQ is ridiculously expensive also so SQ are hard to fill in the plane and needs to offer very attractive fare to stopover customer.

QRC3288

So maybe everyone in SIN and HKG can just fly each other's airlines then.

To be fair, the SQ discounted fares are never as cheap (IMO) as the cheapo CX outport fares. And they aren't available as regularly. But the ex homeport fares for both airlines are similarly outrageous. I don't know the precise data but I buy all sorts of premium tickets, and it seems to me the disparity at CX in fares is greater than SQ. Basically CX has some super cheapo fares in J (and apparently F ex-Europe too!) which I at least have never seen at SQ.

sxc

CX is starting to break. J fares to Australia now start at $23k (slightly higher than QFs $20k which has been around for years). A CX fare at this price is a big backdown for CX which has only rarely been less than $30k in the last 10 years+.

It's also only slightly higher than the ex-tpe/icn/tok fares.

KrazyTrain18

Heard some rumors that CX is going to introduce something of a "low cost cabin" at the rear of the main Y cabin in order to offer fares similar to LCCs. Supposedly those rows will have reduced legroom and different catering than regular Y. Apparently will only be implemented on the regional network, there's a bit of chatter on this subject on PPRUNE, to be announced late 2017-implemented mid 2018.

If true, I think its a step in the right direction. Sure more cost cutting and the words "LCC" probably won't sit well with most on here however CX desperately need to do something about the LCC competition regionally and outright starting or investing in an existing LCC is definitely not on the cards for the next few years with their current financial state.

bart simpson

I highly doubt the credibility of rumours.

KrazyTrain18

As do I however it would make sense given the usual too late to the party bandaid jobs by the airline.

QRC3288

I hope that trend sticks around. Those are finally some reasonable fares! It's a good thing for anyone who pays cash, although those fares are always a bad thing for award bookers.

Now, I wish CX would do the same for ex-HKG F class....if they would drop those fares near full fare J level, that becomes a whole new ballgame.

I don't fly in the US too often, maybe just 10-20 segments annually, but my impression from some of the blog posts (and fares I've bought) is that regular cash fares in domestic F are finally becoming pretty reasonable meanwhile awards are harder to come by. I'm certain about the cash fares because I usually buy them. For example, last time in the US I paid something like ~$800 for a Jetblue "Mint" class seat a few months ago to go from SFO to BOS. Years back, I remember paying something like $2-3k USD for a (horrible) AA "F" class experience on the same route. And I also see those bloggers seem to be complaining about horrible seat availability. I think these two factors are related.

Not that CX has ever been very generous with Asia Miles availability - usually barely, if not any better than partners - so perhaps it's a different can of worms for Cathay. Or perhaps CX finally sells more of the front seats for cash and culls the partner award conga train they've gotten addicted to.

G-CIVC

Actually ex-HKG discounting is really happening, I think HKG-LHR is selling for $10k USD in F and HKG-PEK for $15k HKD. Not completely crazy prices.

As for transcon market...the competition is too tough B6 is taking the lead in driving fares down with their innovative concept of premium cabin on an LCC. However AA no longer has (fake) "F" class for their premium transcons, they're all full 3-class (FJY) flights nowadays, although service is of course a mixed bag...

peasant

Yep - on the Delta boards here they are complaining about "monetisation" (Delta's term) of domestic F. Basically, Delta now aim to price domestic F class at "market clearing" levels (often with upgrade for cash offers) dramatically cutting upgrade/ award chances.

Especially when you take into account needing to pay for bag/ seat reservation for non elite flyers in economy, these upgrade offers are attractive (but more so to non elite members than elite members, as elite get free check in bag/ preferential seat in EY anyway)

Clipper801

Here's a comparison of J fares for YYZ-HKG for mid late November 2017.
(14/11/2017 YYZ-HKG with return on 21/11/2017 HKG-YYZ)

CX (as well as AC) J is significantly more expensive than several other options including MU, HU, BA/AY combo, TK, AA and KE. The only difference is that CX (and AC) are direct non-stop. That's a huge premium for this convenience.

Many companies now require their employees to fly the cheapest fare on the most logical itinerary. 1-stop vs. non-stop is often not in the consideration so long as the departure and arrival times to be "acceptable".

The 10-hour layover in IST may be "painful" but TK offers free local tours for long transit passengers.

*

KrazyTrain18

The only option other than CX I'd consider would be AA through DFW as the J seat is nearly identical, none of the other options are too attractive despite the lower fares. Not sure I'm too interested in Turkey at the moment.

Aus106080

Up to now, stock market is quite positive for the " new strategy". CX stock price increases apparently.

Clipper801

All I have tried to point out is that many folks are "forced" to fly an airline with cheaper J fare (than CX) by their companies because the fare difference is significant. There are also no lack of leisure travellers who are ready to pay a little bit more for something better than the sardine in steerage class. Premium economy has been a good compromise. When these folks look at the price of J at other airlines, many would be tempted to try.

I have excluded the 2 stops itinerary in my earlier YYZ-HKG comparison example. When one does not mind making 2 stops, BA/AY, AC/UA/KA combos are available at very attractive prices also. I have not flown but I have ready good things about UA's new Polaris service.

At the end, there are cheaper alternatives and the traveller needs to decide individually whether the CX premium is worth it. This is what CX is facing.

*