Oct 2, 2015, 3:08 am
Last edit by: sxc
Related threads:
What are the best value segments under the new system?
Switching out of Marco Polo: What do you choose and why?
FAQs as answered by AgencyGuy:
When will the mid-tier benefits be awarded?
They will be awarded as the member hits the mid-tier milestone. Not at the end of the membership year. These will be valid for a year commencing the day they are granted. No points are deduced when members are awarded these benefits.
Does that mean a member reaching 1800 tier points will get all three mid-tier benefits?
Yes, each benefit will be made available as the member hits the 1400, 1600 and 1800 point milestones
What mid-tier benefits will be awarded as of the conversion date of 15 April 2016?
The mid-tier benefits will kick in automatically after 15th April, if your converted club points balance exceeds the mid-tier thresholds. So for a Diamond tier member, if your converted balance is 1800 points you will immediately have access to two first class lounge guest passes, four bookable upgrades and one companion Gold card.
A Gold member on his/her way to Diamond pick up four short/medium upgrades along the way, but a renewing Diamond gets nothing?
You are correct, Silver, Gold or Diamond members on their way to renewal, don’t get additional benefits until they reach the mid-tier thresholds. But they will get there, I guess the benefits are designed to recognize members who go the extra mile after they have passed their renewal thresholds.
Is there any requirement on the underlying booking sub-classes when using a mid-tier upgrade "coupon"?
Yes, the original flight needs to be booked in an “upgradable” sub-class, the same sub-classes that qualify for Asia Miles upgrades
Is economy upgraded to Premium Economy or business for flights with Premium Economy?
It is always a one class upgrade so Economy to Premium Economy, if a flight does not have Premium Economy then the upgrade is to Business.
Are the sub-classes for the upgraded bookings A, I, and E (if applicable)?
I don’t know what these subclasses are yet other than that they will be revenue instead of redemption sub-classes. I guess they will be announced later.
What miles will be awarded for a flight upgraded using a upgrade coupon? The original ticket class, or the upgraded class?
I understand that both points and miles will be credited based on the upgraded class.
Green Re-Qualification
For Green members, if their membership year ends before 15 April 2016, like now, their membership will automatically be renewed. If their membership ends after 15 April and they have ANY club points at that time, they will be automatically renewed for another year (even if they are below 100 pts). If their membership ends after 15 April and they have no club points at that time, they will lose their Green membership or have the option of paying the US$100 fee to renew.
What are the best value segments under the new system?
Switching out of Marco Polo: What do you choose and why?
FAQs as answered by AgencyGuy:
When will the mid-tier benefits be awarded?
They will be awarded as the member hits the mid-tier milestone. Not at the end of the membership year. These will be valid for a year commencing the day they are granted. No points are deduced when members are awarded these benefits.
Does that mean a member reaching 1800 tier points will get all three mid-tier benefits?
Yes, each benefit will be made available as the member hits the 1400, 1600 and 1800 point milestones
What mid-tier benefits will be awarded as of the conversion date of 15 April 2016?
The mid-tier benefits will kick in automatically after 15th April, if your converted club points balance exceeds the mid-tier thresholds. So for a Diamond tier member, if your converted balance is 1800 points you will immediately have access to two first class lounge guest passes, four bookable upgrades and one companion Gold card.
A Gold member on his/her way to Diamond pick up four short/medium upgrades along the way, but a renewing Diamond gets nothing?
You are correct, Silver, Gold or Diamond members on their way to renewal, don’t get additional benefits until they reach the mid-tier thresholds. But they will get there, I guess the benefits are designed to recognize members who go the extra mile after they have passed their renewal thresholds.
Is there any requirement on the underlying booking sub-classes when using a mid-tier upgrade "coupon"?
Yes, the original flight needs to be booked in an “upgradable” sub-class, the same sub-classes that qualify for Asia Miles upgrades
Is economy upgraded to Premium Economy or business for flights with Premium Economy?
It is always a one class upgrade so Economy to Premium Economy, if a flight does not have Premium Economy then the upgrade is to Business.
Are the sub-classes for the upgraded bookings A, I, and E (if applicable)?
I don’t know what these subclasses are yet other than that they will be revenue instead of redemption sub-classes. I guess they will be announced later.
What miles will be awarded for a flight upgraded using a upgrade coupon? The original ticket class, or the upgraded class?
I understand that both points and miles will be credited based on the upgraded class.
Green Re-Qualification
For Green members, if their membership year ends before 15 April 2016, like now, their membership will automatically be renewed. If their membership ends after 15 April and they have ANY club points at that time, they will be automatically renewed for another year (even if they are below 100 pts). If their membership ends after 15 April and they have no club points at that time, they will lose their Green membership or have the option of paying the US$100 fee to renew.
Changes to MPC announced for 15 Apr 2016
Sep 30, 2015, 9:24 am
#121
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Silver
Posts: 54
I only found out about guarantee seat books in V even if V is not available for sale recently. I probably wouldn't know about this feature until after I made Gold (or jagmeets explained it to me) but I appreciate the value now (and why this is probably costing CX).
As I see it, CX are not actually giving us anything additional at Gold or Diamond tier, so ignoring the mid tier benefits, I can't see this as being an "enhancement".
Sep 30, 2015, 9:39 am
#122
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: CX DM, SPG GO
Posts: 79
This was the main reason I valued Gold (when I was previously a Gold) and Diamond, as I am able to change flights even if the fare bucket is no longer available (I'd still have to pay the change fee of course, but that's okay).
As I see it, CX are not actually giving us anything additional at Gold or Diamond tier, so ignoring the mid tier benefits, I can't see this as being an "enhancement".
As I see it, CX are not actually giving us anything additional at Gold or Diamond tier, so ignoring the mid tier benefits, I can't see this as being an "enhancement".
Sep 30, 2015, 10:02 am
#123
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: HKG
Programs: CX Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Plat
Posts: 418
This was the main reason I valued Gold (when I was previously a Gold) and Diamond, as I am able to change flights even if the fare bucket is no longer available (I'd still have to pay the change fee of course, but that's okay).
As I see it, CX are not actually giving us anything additional at Gold or Diamond tier, so ignoring the mid tier benefits, I can't see this as being an "enhancement".
As I see it, CX are not actually giving us anything additional at Gold or Diamond tier, so ignoring the mid tier benefits, I can't see this as being an "enhancement".
I hope Agency Guy could explain to us what real additional benefits of being a GO over SL in the new scheme apart from the OW benefits.
The additional baggage allowance is not an exclusive CX benefit. For Y flyers the extra 15kg or 1 piece is available for all OWS members.
And you need to fly way above the GO criteria to get those stingy mid-tier benefits - lounge coupons for someone else to use. Bookable upgrades on shorthaul? Sure it will be easy to book one when CX is retrofitting its regional aircrafts to reduce like 40% of J seats!
Why not attain OWS somewhere else then?
Sep 30, 2015, 10:13 am
#124
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: 32.7758° N, 96.7967° W
Programs: AA EXP,SPG 75
Posts: 318
^
Cathay just made a new MPC customer today with these changes.
Mods is it possible to separate out the discussion on the new Upgrade Instruments? It seems like a very significant change to the program that warrants it own discussion. Plus I don't really care to mine through all the endless whining in this thread about the point changes.
Cathay just made a new MPC customer today with these changes.
Mods is it possible to separate out the discussion on the new Upgrade Instruments? It seems like a very significant change to the program that warrants it own discussion. Plus I don't really care to mine through all the endless whining in this thread about the point changes.
Sep 30, 2015, 10:29 am
#125
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: HKG
Programs: MPO DM (OWE); UA *G (*A G), HHonors Gold; KLM/AF Flying Blue
Posts: 133
Would like to seek some general advice from some of you. For someone like myself who is a hard-earned DM from many hours in economy or PEY, I am very doubtful that I can retain DM with the new system.
Do you think it will make good sense now for me to call it quits and start crediting all my miles to BA Avios, Qantas FF or even AAdvantage?
My usual travel patterns are either HKG - Europe (which I am happy to fly with BA instead on Y or PEY) or HKG - North America, esp. USA. For the latter, I would probably still prefer CX over AA as I do normally fly back of bus.
Any thoughts?
Do you think it will make good sense now for me to call it quits and start crediting all my miles to BA Avios, Qantas FF or even AAdvantage?
My usual travel patterns are either HKG - Europe (which I am happy to fly with BA instead on Y or PEY) or HKG - North America, esp. USA. For the latter, I would probably still prefer CX over AA as I do normally fly back of bus.
Any thoughts?
Sep 30, 2015, 10:41 am
#126
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,347
I'm a bit confused about the TP reset when moving up status levels.
From what I read in this thread, when you get to 300 TP and get silver, then your points are reset to 0, and you need another 600 to make gold, then a further 1200 to make diamond.
If that is the case, then the mid-tier benefits levels don't make any sense - if you are gold and reset to 0, you don't get anything until 800, and then suddenly you get lots of stuff and reach DM very quickly.
I think you are even less likely to achieve status with BA, QF or AA.
I think AA would currently have the best value for earning and redemption, but there is an expected devaluation in 2016.
From what I read in this thread, when you get to 300 TP and get silver, then your points are reset to 0, and you need another 600 to make gold, then a further 1200 to make diamond.
If that is the case, then the mid-tier benefits levels don't make any sense - if you are gold and reset to 0, you don't get anything until 800, and then suddenly you get lots of stuff and reach DM very quickly.
Would like to seek some general advice from some of you. For someone like myself who is a hard-earned DM from many hours in economy or PEY, I am very doubtful that I can retain DM with the new system.
Do you think it will make good sense now for me to call it quits and start crediting all my miles to BA Avios, Qantas FF or even AAdvantage?
My usual travel patterns are either HKG - Europe (which I am happy to fly with BA instead on Y or PEY) or HKG - North America, esp. USA. For the latter, I would probably still prefer CX over AA as I do normally fly back of bus.
Any thoughts?
Do you think it will make good sense now for me to call it quits and start crediting all my miles to BA Avios, Qantas FF or even AAdvantage?
My usual travel patterns are either HKG - Europe (which I am happy to fly with BA instead on Y or PEY) or HKG - North America, esp. USA. For the latter, I would probably still prefer CX over AA as I do normally fly back of bus.
Any thoughts?
I think AA would currently have the best value for earning and redemption, but there is an expected devaluation in 2016.
Sep 30, 2015, 11:06 am
#127
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
Goodbye CX, hello AA
The points system is just plainly unfair to PEY flyers: Traveling E fare gets the same points as K fare? Is CX trying to kill PEY and just give a finger to PEY cabin buyer such as myself?
Guaranteed Seat pretty much useless unless you're corporate flyers (or uber-rich) being forced to buy J, W, Y fares respectively.
Related to above, GO used to be a great elite tier to fight for because of GSR - but now there really is no reason to fight to attain GO once you've gotten SL. You can bring one extra guest into lounges and use the Arrival Lounge? Boo hoo. What about higher upgrade chance? It will be degraded as there will be more DMs.
Get ready for tons of DMs. Now all one needs to do is travel long-haul I-fare 6 times to get a DM. I can see the real number of DM members increase by at least 30% due to this new rules.
Mid-tier benefits travesty. Lounge passes? For GO it's upgradeable only for mid to short routes? Gosh, throw us at least a real bone. Companion DM card is nice.
So basically CX says we only truly value I-fare or above flyers, and everyone else is free to leave at their pleasure (even PEY flyers). Despite more and more evidence shows a flight routes can be profitable by selling out backend alone, but vice-versa is not true (selling out premium cabins but having a lackluster backend cabins results in a losing route).
"Following airline industry" - so I guess when everyone else is making the same mistake one has to make the same mistake. If their GO is reasonable, say retain GSR to V fare, then I will stay with CX (making GO isn't a problem), but with this? There's no reason to stay with CX. Other airlines' hardwares are catching up, food are better, services may still be subpar compared to CX but seriously, I didn't fly so I can chit-chat to FAs all day (not anymore at least), I want them to stay away from me as much as they want to stay away from pax.
Message received, they looked down on PEY and Y fliers, fine, AA 2016.
Guaranteed Seat pretty much useless unless you're corporate flyers (or uber-rich) being forced to buy J, W, Y fares respectively.
Related to above, GO used to be a great elite tier to fight for because of GSR - but now there really is no reason to fight to attain GO once you've gotten SL. You can bring one extra guest into lounges and use the Arrival Lounge? Boo hoo. What about higher upgrade chance? It will be degraded as there will be more DMs.
Get ready for tons of DMs. Now all one needs to do is travel long-haul I-fare 6 times to get a DM. I can see the real number of DM members increase by at least 30% due to this new rules.
Mid-tier benefits travesty. Lounge passes? For GO it's upgradeable only for mid to short routes? Gosh, throw us at least a real bone. Companion DM card is nice.
So basically CX says we only truly value I-fare or above flyers, and everyone else is free to leave at their pleasure (even PEY flyers). Despite more and more evidence shows a flight routes can be profitable by selling out backend alone, but vice-versa is not true (selling out premium cabins but having a lackluster backend cabins results in a losing route).
"Following airline industry" - so I guess when everyone else is making the same mistake one has to make the same mistake. If their GO is reasonable, say retain GSR to V fare, then I will stay with CX (making GO isn't a problem), but with this? There's no reason to stay with CX. Other airlines' hardwares are catching up, food are better, services may still be subpar compared to CX but seriously, I didn't fly so I can chit-chat to FAs all day (not anymore at least), I want them to stay away from me as much as they want to stay away from pax.
Message received, they looked down on PEY and Y fliers, fine, AA 2016.
Sep 30, 2015, 11:08 am
#128
Join Date: Oct 2012
Programs: CX - DM; Hilton - Diamond, Marriott - Titanium
Posts: 542
I'm a bit confused about the TP reset when moving up status levels.
From what I read in this thread, when you get to 300 TP and get silver, then your points are reset to 0, and you need another 600 to make gold, then a further 1200 to make diamond.
If that is the case, then the mid-tier benefits levels don't make any sense - if you are gold and reset to 0, you don't get anything until 800, and then suddenly you get lots of stuff and reach DM very quickly.
From what I read in this thread, when you get to 300 TP and get silver, then your points are reset to 0, and you need another 600 to make gold, then a further 1200 to make diamond.
If that is the case, then the mid-tier benefits levels don't make any sense - if you are gold and reset to 0, you don't get anything until 800, and then suddenly you get lots of stuff and reach DM very quickly.
Sep 30, 2015, 11:10 am
#129
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: CX GO (in hibernation mode), AA EXP, SPG GO, HH DM
Posts: 316
Sep 30, 2015, 11:10 am
#130
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
This is how I read it: the mid-tier benefit is for those who won't be resetting immediately after re-qualifying the GO or DM. So for e.g. a DM could reach each mid-tier benefit 1400/1600/1800 threshold to get those additional benefits only if they do not reset their membership immediately after reaching 1200 points.
Sep 30, 2015, 11:24 am
#131
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,171
Wait a second..
I still haven't got an email from The Marco Polo Club!
(Finally went through the email - on my wife's account!)
Given the norm for their promotional emails to our household, I expected to get one a few hours after my GO wife got hers..but no email yet!
Perhaps they've already written me off, even though my rough calculations suggest that I'd have been in the 900-1800 TP range over the past few years.
So, a DM loses
a) Lounge access at the times when he/she might really be thankful to CX for it
b) Guaranteed seats at a reasonable price - OK, I didnt really use it much these days - but still valued the program for that 'good to have in case of an emergency' option.
(basically, only DMs & to some extent GOs lose some benefits - & its the benefits that made some of us the fanboys in the first place)
And, all the 'extras' that a DM gets(& only on putting in 'extra')
a) 2 Lounge Passes @ +200'CP' (which one could redeem for 18/24K Asiamiles),
b) 4 upgrade vouchers @+400CP &
c) a GO card @+600CP (so you can gift your extra flying's earned benefits, if you fly as much 'more' as a GO..something which can have utility anywhere between awesome & nothing).
Am sure there'll be a massive variation in personal valuations but, to me, (a) is negligible, (b) not too much either, given that ~75% of my CX travel this year (paid & redemption), has been in the highest class offered on the plane - not sure how many 1600CP folks would really be needing these, (c) not much since wife's a GO, and the others that I plan travel for get biz travel/lounge access where its needed etc anyway & I'm not generous enough to just be giving a Lai See with a GO card in there. Also, a few folks' cases would get covered under 'travelling companion' though I do see the value to some.
As pointed upthread, not sure if they're planning to re-jig the AM earn/burn rates to make it 'more rewarding' where apt.
I do hope that the 'ongoing range of enhanced member experiences' is more substantive than that linked youtube video (sure - the newly designed card would be great, but the only time I ever take it out is at partner lounges, who don't really care).
Definitely time for me to take a long hard look at other options (both flight & program) including if I might be better off as a High Value GO (who can atleast upgrade midhauls), than a low value DM who can't upgrade longhauls (doubt I'd waste them upgrade vouchers on midhauls then! - just human psychology).
Do suspect that there'll be quite a few moving from GO to SL & that's the logic behind keeping the SL benefits - to stop them from migrating away completely from CX.
And pray, how are the issues that supposedly led to the changes being addressed?
Hope I'm wrong but sounds like an awesome (& complicated - no wonder they took aeons) job to please one's manager, with key defined deliverables/KPIs being addressed, even though the correlation between those KPIs & actual business needs might just be a tad suspect.
Really - I'd just be happy with a website with a 2015 era functionaility, instead of the a/b/c extras above.
[/Rant]
@AgencyGuy - I've really appreciated your posts on here, but not sure if 'Great start to all these developments' was perhaps a tad premature..
I still haven't got an email from The Marco Polo Club!
(Finally went through the email - on my wife's account!)
Given the norm for their promotional emails to our household, I expected to get one a few hours after my GO wife got hers..but no email yet!
Perhaps they've already written me off, even though my rough calculations suggest that I'd have been in the 900-1800 TP range over the past few years.
So, a DM loses
a) Lounge access at the times when he/she might really be thankful to CX for it
b) Guaranteed seats at a reasonable price - OK, I didnt really use it much these days - but still valued the program for that 'good to have in case of an emergency' option.
(basically, only DMs & to some extent GOs lose some benefits - & its the benefits that made some of us the fanboys in the first place)
And, all the 'extras' that a DM gets(& only on putting in 'extra')
a) 2 Lounge Passes @ +200'CP' (which one could redeem for 18/24K Asiamiles),
b) 4 upgrade vouchers @+400CP &
c) a GO card @+600CP (so you can gift your extra flying's earned benefits, if you fly as much 'more' as a GO..something which can have utility anywhere between awesome & nothing).
Am sure there'll be a massive variation in personal valuations but, to me, (a) is negligible, (b) not too much either, given that ~75% of my CX travel this year (paid & redemption), has been in the highest class offered on the plane - not sure how many 1600CP folks would really be needing these, (c) not much since wife's a GO, and the others that I plan travel for get biz travel/lounge access where its needed etc anyway & I'm not generous enough to just be giving a Lai See with a GO card in there. Also, a few folks' cases would get covered under 'travelling companion' though I do see the value to some.
As pointed upthread, not sure if they're planning to re-jig the AM earn/burn rates to make it 'more rewarding' where apt.
I do hope that the 'ongoing range of enhanced member experiences' is more substantive than that linked youtube video (sure - the newly designed card would be great, but the only time I ever take it out is at partner lounges, who don't really care).
Definitely time for me to take a long hard look at other options (both flight & program) including if I might be better off as a High Value GO (who can atleast upgrade midhauls), than a low value DM who can't upgrade longhauls (doubt I'd waste them upgrade vouchers on midhauls then! - just human psychology).
Do suspect that there'll be quite a few moving from GO to SL & that's the logic behind keeping the SL benefits - to stop them from migrating away completely from CX.
And pray, how are the issues that supposedly led to the changes being addressed?
Hope I'm wrong but sounds like an awesome (& complicated - no wonder they took aeons) job to please one's manager, with key defined deliverables/KPIs being addressed, even though the correlation between those KPIs & actual business needs might just be a tad suspect.
Really - I'd just be happy with a website with a 2015 era functionaility, instead of the a/b/c extras above.
[/Rant]
@AgencyGuy - I've really appreciated your posts on here, but not sure if 'Great start to all these developments' was perhaps a tad premature..
Sep 30, 2015, 11:32 am
#132
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,347
This is how I read it: the mid-tier benefit is for those who won't be resetting immediately after re-qualifying the GO or DM. So for e.g. a DM could reach each mid-tier benefit 1400/1600/1800 threshold to get those additional benefits only if they do not reset their membership immediately after reaching 1200 points.
Observation: BA Silver (OWS) can be easily obtained with one QR J HKG-DOH-LHR return and a few more Y shorthauls. Not sure what this would earn under the old CX system, but under the new system you may not even reach CX SL.
Sep 30, 2015, 11:36 am
#134
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,477
You guys should be happy that CX did not go the way PPS went. And the new system is somewhere in between BA and QF.
Yes it is hard for Y flyers. But if you stick with CX, Y flyers are still having their benefits like lounge access. It is pity CX has not addressed the problem of the overflowing in its lounges yet. (Silver still has lounge access)
The real gain is to be able to earn miles on SQN! That is much better than before. The revamped programme is actually much better than many have anticipated. The guaranteed seats in Y is not a big issue really, especially for leisure travellers.
Overall, positive changes IMO. But I have abandoned CXMPC long time ago for QF and AA. So nothing for me really.
Yes it is hard for Y flyers. But if you stick with CX, Y flyers are still having their benefits like lounge access. It is pity CX has not addressed the problem of the overflowing in its lounges yet. (Silver still has lounge access)
The real gain is to be able to earn miles on SQN! That is much better than before. The revamped programme is actually much better than many have anticipated. The guaranteed seats in Y is not a big issue really, especially for leisure travellers.
Overall, positive changes IMO. But I have abandoned CXMPC long time ago for QF and AA. So nothing for me really.
Sep 30, 2015, 12:14 pm
#135
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: CX GO (in hibernation mode), AA EXP, SPG GO, HH DM
Posts: 316
points calculator
question....does anyone know how mpc would calculate a RT from lax-cdg?
the calculator doesn't recognize cdg and i have a trip after 15/04/16. lax-lhr-cdg on BA
according to the calculator when flying in J i earn 150 points from lax-lhr but how will mpc calculate the lhr-cdg leg? hoping it'll count as another 'ultra short' accrural but that may be wishful thinking
the calculator doesn't recognize cdg and i have a trip after 15/04/16. lax-lhr-cdg on BA
according to the calculator when flying in J i earn 150 points from lax-lhr but how will mpc calculate the lhr-cdg leg? hoping it'll count as another 'ultra short' accrural but that may be wishful thinking