Oct 2, 2015, 3:08 am
Last edit by: sxc
Related threads:
What are the best value segments under the new system?
Switching out of Marco Polo: What do you choose and why?
FAQs as answered by AgencyGuy:
When will the mid-tier benefits be awarded?
They will be awarded as the member hits the mid-tier milestone. Not at the end of the membership year. These will be valid for a year commencing the day they are granted. No points are deduced when members are awarded these benefits.
Does that mean a member reaching 1800 tier points will get all three mid-tier benefits?
Yes, each benefit will be made available as the member hits the 1400, 1600 and 1800 point milestones
What mid-tier benefits will be awarded as of the conversion date of 15 April 2016?
The mid-tier benefits will kick in automatically after 15th April, if your converted club points balance exceeds the mid-tier thresholds. So for a Diamond tier member, if your converted balance is 1800 points you will immediately have access to two first class lounge guest passes, four bookable upgrades and one companion Gold card.
A Gold member on his/her way to Diamond pick up four short/medium upgrades along the way, but a renewing Diamond gets nothing?
You are correct, Silver, Gold or Diamond members on their way to renewal, don’t get additional benefits until they reach the mid-tier thresholds. But they will get there, I guess the benefits are designed to recognize members who go the extra mile after they have passed their renewal thresholds.
Is there any requirement on the underlying booking sub-classes when using a mid-tier upgrade "coupon"?
Yes, the original flight needs to be booked in an “upgradable” sub-class, the same sub-classes that qualify for Asia Miles upgrades
Is economy upgraded to Premium Economy or business for flights with Premium Economy?
It is always a one class upgrade so Economy to Premium Economy, if a flight does not have Premium Economy then the upgrade is to Business.
Are the sub-classes for the upgraded bookings A, I, and E (if applicable)?
I don’t know what these subclasses are yet other than that they will be revenue instead of redemption sub-classes. I guess they will be announced later.
What miles will be awarded for a flight upgraded using a upgrade coupon? The original ticket class, or the upgraded class?
I understand that both points and miles will be credited based on the upgraded class.
Green Re-Qualification
For Green members, if their membership year ends before 15 April 2016, like now, their membership will automatically be renewed. If their membership ends after 15 April and they have ANY club points at that time, they will be automatically renewed for another year (even if they are below 100 pts). If their membership ends after 15 April and they have no club points at that time, they will lose their Green membership or have the option of paying the US$100 fee to renew.
What are the best value segments under the new system?
Switching out of Marco Polo: What do you choose and why?
FAQs as answered by AgencyGuy:
When will the mid-tier benefits be awarded?
They will be awarded as the member hits the mid-tier milestone. Not at the end of the membership year. These will be valid for a year commencing the day they are granted. No points are deduced when members are awarded these benefits.
Does that mean a member reaching 1800 tier points will get all three mid-tier benefits?
Yes, each benefit will be made available as the member hits the 1400, 1600 and 1800 point milestones
What mid-tier benefits will be awarded as of the conversion date of 15 April 2016?
The mid-tier benefits will kick in automatically after 15th April, if your converted club points balance exceeds the mid-tier thresholds. So for a Diamond tier member, if your converted balance is 1800 points you will immediately have access to two first class lounge guest passes, four bookable upgrades and one companion Gold card.
A Gold member on his/her way to Diamond pick up four short/medium upgrades along the way, but a renewing Diamond gets nothing?
You are correct, Silver, Gold or Diamond members on their way to renewal, don’t get additional benefits until they reach the mid-tier thresholds. But they will get there, I guess the benefits are designed to recognize members who go the extra mile after they have passed their renewal thresholds.
Is there any requirement on the underlying booking sub-classes when using a mid-tier upgrade "coupon"?
Yes, the original flight needs to be booked in an “upgradable” sub-class, the same sub-classes that qualify for Asia Miles upgrades
Is economy upgraded to Premium Economy or business for flights with Premium Economy?
It is always a one class upgrade so Economy to Premium Economy, if a flight does not have Premium Economy then the upgrade is to Business.
Are the sub-classes for the upgraded bookings A, I, and E (if applicable)?
I don’t know what these subclasses are yet other than that they will be revenue instead of redemption sub-classes. I guess they will be announced later.
What miles will be awarded for a flight upgraded using a upgrade coupon? The original ticket class, or the upgraded class?
I understand that both points and miles will be credited based on the upgraded class.
Green Re-Qualification
For Green members, if their membership year ends before 15 April 2016, like now, their membership will automatically be renewed. If their membership ends after 15 April and they have ANY club points at that time, they will be automatically renewed for another year (even if they are below 100 pts). If their membership ends after 15 April and they have no club points at that time, they will lose their Green membership or have the option of paying the US$100 fee to renew.
Changes to MPC announced for 15 Apr 2016
Oct 1, 2015, 4:24 am
#211
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Does anyone know, if a top tier (say, DM) memeber does not fly as frequent as before and gets less than 100 club points in the accountable year, will he be kicked out from the MPO club next year?
The reason I ask is that in the old scheme CX guarantees to downgrade the tier by one level only if one fails to maintain the status. However such words are missing and they only claim if you achieve certain points and you can upgrade / maintain. No "downgrade" rule listed.
The reason I ask is that in the old scheme CX guarantees to downgrade the tier by one level only if one fails to maintain the status. However such words are missing and they only claim if you achieve certain points and you can upgrade / maintain. No "downgrade" rule listed.
The reason the language may be vague is to force comped status customers - aka remember how DM, GO or SL have been comped for some Amex promotions in the past? - to face a hard landing. Because no matter how CX or IFRS accounts for those benefits, the cost of those benefits are philosophically different for a current customer versus a potential customer:
a.) Comped status: benefits consumed are basically sales and marketing expenses.
b.) Earned status: benefits consumed can be thought of philosophically as a rebate or contra revenue, which ultimately is a cost of good sold.
a.) result for CX can be seen as binary. Was attracting the potential customer a success or failure?
b.) this person has a historical business relationship with the airline. It is generally not good business to tell your long-time good customers to "go to he!!". Soft landing is probably the preferred treatment.
Last edited by QRC3288; Oct 1, 2015 at 4:31 am
Oct 1, 2015, 4:37 am
#212
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: OneWorld Emerald (BA GGL), *A Silver (Miles & Less), Skyteam Pleb (KLM FlyingBlue), Mucci Platinum
Posts: 907
4 trips x 360pts gets you very close to the 1,500 Emerald mark, though as someone pointed out, you will still need four BA legs, which is basically one Europe trip connecting in LHR.
Oct 1, 2015, 4:42 am
#213
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
Y class probably loses out to J class here
*As I get my arms around these changes, it seems the entry-level ticket to get DM has been increased. Before, the bare bones level to hit DM was probably ~$10k-12k USD, achieved via flying long-haul Y class. Today, I think the bare bones level has gone to at least 15k USD, a 50% increase because you really need to be buying I or D fares. (and that would have to be 100% I fares ex-outport. I can't see HK-based people getting it that cheap). Realistically, many DMs are paying much more. I am not sure how many previous DMs were paying $10-$12k USD/year flying long-haul Y or PEY, but it seems CX is poised to lose some of their business. This is probably the reason CX is upping the earning for cheapo economy class, because they will have some seats to fill in the back after this.
*I actually think we will see a change in the lounge crowds as a result. CX must know the #s. It's obvious higher-spending GOs are going to qualify for DM now, when beforehand they wouldn't. I suspect these are mainly corporate types flying expensive J fares. However, it's also apparent to me many of the primarily Y and PEY fliers who had DM in the past are, unfortunately, going to lose their status.
*The sweeping conclusion I have is an "easy" path for Y and PEY fliers has been taken away: long-haul Y flying. You will now need to be an extreme economy or PEY flier to earn DM, or else be content with GO or even SL.
*Realistically, today the entry-level ticket for a reasonable way to earn DM as a long-haul flier is I fares. So CX has basically made biz class (including cheaper biz fares) the "reasonable" entry-level to get DM. D/I are good deals, but alas they are still significantly more expensive than Y fares and I guess this is where CX drew the line. CX seems to have made it significantly more challenging to get DM with solely long-haul Y or PEY anymore. Unless you are really, really hardcore and putting more money in CX's pocket as a result of your pain tolerance.
*I'm a fan of giving Y fliers top-level benefits...not to mention, you presumably really feel the benefit of DM most when you're in the back of the bus long-haul...but they made a decision and went with it, and to their credit they didn't go PPS style so Y class fliers are still going to be appreciated. Just not as much as before.
*It's unfortunate guys like Lapu Lapu and Cathay Boy will probably end up taking their business elsewhere, or at least losing their high level elite status, as a result of these changes. I am pleased myself but I can understand how there is inevitably going to be disappointment from some longtime fliers with the spending patterns who CX has decided to reward less.
*The guys who most benefit probably aren't as hardcore to the CX brand as guys who were DM as loyal economy fliers, but I suspect they put a lot more in CX's coffers. Many are probably corporate types. The constituency who benefits are current GO member-like fliers, perhaps 3-4 JFK round-trips a year and some regionals in full J or C class (or maybe even some F) - who weren't eligible for DM before. These guys might be spending 40k+ USD a year a CX and probably higher than a lot of DMs but were only GO before. These are the guys who benefit.
*I actually think we will see a change in the lounge crowds as a result. CX must know the #s. It's obvious higher-spending GOs are going to qualify for DM now, when beforehand they wouldn't. I suspect these are mainly corporate types flying expensive J fares. However, it's also apparent to me many of the primarily Y and PEY fliers who had DM in the past are, unfortunately, going to lose their status.
*The sweeping conclusion I have is an "easy" path for Y and PEY fliers has been taken away: long-haul Y flying. You will now need to be an extreme economy or PEY flier to earn DM, or else be content with GO or even SL.
*Realistically, today the entry-level ticket for a reasonable way to earn DM as a long-haul flier is I fares. So CX has basically made biz class (including cheaper biz fares) the "reasonable" entry-level to get DM. D/I are good deals, but alas they are still significantly more expensive than Y fares and I guess this is where CX drew the line. CX seems to have made it significantly more challenging to get DM with solely long-haul Y or PEY anymore. Unless you are really, really hardcore and putting more money in CX's pocket as a result of your pain tolerance.
*I'm a fan of giving Y fliers top-level benefits...not to mention, you presumably really feel the benefit of DM most when you're in the back of the bus long-haul...but they made a decision and went with it, and to their credit they didn't go PPS style so Y class fliers are still going to be appreciated. Just not as much as before.
*It's unfortunate guys like Lapu Lapu and Cathay Boy will probably end up taking their business elsewhere, or at least losing their high level elite status, as a result of these changes. I am pleased myself but I can understand how there is inevitably going to be disappointment from some longtime fliers with the spending patterns who CX has decided to reward less.
*The guys who most benefit probably aren't as hardcore to the CX brand as guys who were DM as loyal economy fliers, but I suspect they put a lot more in CX's coffers. Many are probably corporate types. The constituency who benefits are current GO member-like fliers, perhaps 3-4 JFK round-trips a year and some regionals in full J or C class (or maybe even some F) - who weren't eligible for DM before. These guys might be spending 40k+ USD a year a CX and probably higher than a lot of DMs but were only GO before. These are the guys who benefit.
Last edited by QRC3288; Oct 1, 2015 at 4:58 am
Oct 1, 2015, 5:12 am
#215
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,797
Shame, I was planning to move from BA Exec Club to the MPC. No point now. I can earn the same or more flying CX and crediting to BA than i can flying CX and crediting to CX.
I really don't see what they've achieved with these updates tbh. There seems to be very little change unless you exclusively fly one fare class all the time. My other half flies a fairly standard pattern for corporate customers - long haul J once every couple of months and monthly or more regional Y. She has 610 points over 4 months, or just over 60,000 miles. i.e exactly the same.
I really don't see what they've achieved with these updates tbh. There seems to be very little change unless you exclusively fly one fare class all the time. My other half flies a fairly standard pattern for corporate customers - long haul J once every couple of months and monthly or more regional Y. She has 610 points over 4 months, or just over 60,000 miles. i.e exactly the same.
Last edited by 1010101; Oct 1, 2015 at 5:17 am
Oct 1, 2015, 7:15 am
#216
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: 32.7758° N, 96.7967° W
Programs: AA EXP,SPG 75
Posts: 318
Does this mean upgrades will earn higher points based off the new revenue booking class?
Oct 1, 2015, 7:58 am
#217
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
Oct 1, 2015, 8:39 am
#218
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,807
I am not sure how many previous DMs were paying $10-$12k USD/year flying long-haul Y or PEY, but it seems CX is poised to lose some of their business. This is probably the reason CX is upping the earning for cheapo economy class, because they will have some seats to fill in the back after this.
Just curious where do you think these ex-DMs will go? I suspect they will stick with CX because of better ex-HKG timings (so CX really has capacity to screw these people) but would they be better off in another program?
Oct 1, 2015, 8:48 am
#219
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
(Sorry I switched the order of these two statements for easier reading)
Just curious where do you think these ex-DMs will go? I suspect they will stick with CX because of better ex-HKG timings (so CX really has capacity to screw these people) but would they be better off in another program?
Just curious where do you think these ex-DMs will go? I suspect they will stick with CX because of better ex-HKG timings (so CX really has capacity to screw these people) but would they be better off in another program?
My bet is they accrue to AA. If they are flying the more expensive Y fares which AA allows accrual on, I bet they do the AA codeshares but still fly a lot of CX metal. If not YBHK, I don't think it's out of the picture for them to transit DFW and use AA metal. Also, AA is building up a decent Asia presence, i believe they've got PEK and PVG both via ORD and DFW. There are still unfounded rumors that AA may launch LAX HKG at some point.
I'm not sure if their business brings them to the ME, but if so then EK or QR might be worth it, although I shudder to think of sitting in EKs 10 across 777s. I know I've used ME carriers sometimes because I can stopover and do meetings in Dubai or Abu Dhabi and then on to the US, usually for no additional charge. Convenient.
Oct 1, 2015, 8:50 am
#220
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,807
Well we have our usual suspects' roundup:
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/a...51001/19316295
http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/2015...4e3deb1e7f4fac
http://the-sun.on.cc/cnt/news/20151001/00407_008.html
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...lan-offer-best
http://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacif...t-flyer-scheme
http://loyaltylobby.com/2015/09/30/c...15-april-2016/
http://thepointsguy.com/2015/09/cath...rco-polo-club/
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...-changes-2016/
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/news/a...51001/19316295
http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/2015...4e3deb1e7f4fac
http://the-sun.on.cc/cnt/news/20151001/00407_008.html
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...lan-offer-best
http://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacif...t-flyer-scheme
http://loyaltylobby.com/2015/09/30/c...15-april-2016/
http://thepointsguy.com/2015/09/cath...rco-polo-club/
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...-changes-2016/
Last edited by percysmith; Oct 1, 2015 at 9:01 am
Oct 1, 2015, 9:02 am
#221
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: OneWorld Emerald (BA GGL), *A Silver (Miles & Less), Skyteam Pleb (KLM FlyingBlue), Mucci Platinum
Posts: 907
If not YBHK, I don't think it's out of the picture for them to transit DFW and use AA metal. Also, AA is building up a decent Asia presence, i believe they've got PEK and PVG both via ORD and DFW. There are still unfounded rumors that AA may launch LAX HKG at some point.
I'm not sure if their business brings them to the ME, but if so then EK or QR might be worth it, although I shudder to think of sitting in EKs 10 across 777s.
I'm not sure if their business brings them to the ME, but if so then EK or QR might be worth it, although I shudder to think of sitting in EKs 10 across 777s.
Oct 1, 2015, 9:05 am
#222
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: CX GO (in hibernation mode), AA EXP, SPG GO, HH DM
Posts: 316
Looking forward to hearing what lapu lapu and Cathay Boy have to say.
My bet is they accrue to AA. If they are flying the more expensive Y fares which AA allows accrual on, I bet they do the AA codeshares but still fly a lot of CX metal. If not YBHK, I don't think it's out of the picture for them to transit DFW and use AA metal. Also, AA is building up a decent Asia presence, i believe they've got PEK and PVG both via ORD and DFW. There are still unfounded rumors that AA may launch LAX HKG at some point.
My bet is they accrue to AA. If they are flying the more expensive Y fares which AA allows accrual on, I bet they do the AA codeshares but still fly a lot of CX metal. If not YBHK, I don't think it's out of the picture for them to transit DFW and use AA metal. Also, AA is building up a decent Asia presence, i believe they've got PEK and PVG both via ORD and DFW. There are still unfounded rumors that AA may launch LAX HKG at some point.
Last edited by dek526; Oct 1, 2015 at 9:14 am
Oct 1, 2015, 9:49 am
#224
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Hilton Silver
Posts: 54
Looking forward to hearing what lapu lapu and Cathay Boy have to say.
My bet is they accrue to AA. If they are flying the more expensive Y fares which AA allows accrual on, I bet they do the AA codeshares but still fly a lot of CX metal. If not YBHK, I don't think it's out of the picture for them to transit DFW and use AA metal. Also, AA is building up a decent Asia presence, i believe they've got PEK and PVG both via ORD and DFW. There are still unfounded rumors that AA may launch LAX HKG at some point.
I'm not sure if their business brings them to the ME, but if so then EK or QR might be worth it, although I shudder to think of sitting in EKs 10 across 777s. I know I've used ME carriers sometimes because I can stopover and do meetings in Dubai or Abu Dhabi and then on to the US, usually for no additional charge. Convenient.
My bet is they accrue to AA. If they are flying the more expensive Y fares which AA allows accrual on, I bet they do the AA codeshares but still fly a lot of CX metal. If not YBHK, I don't think it's out of the picture for them to transit DFW and use AA metal. Also, AA is building up a decent Asia presence, i believe they've got PEK and PVG both via ORD and DFW. There are still unfounded rumors that AA may launch LAX HKG at some point.
I'm not sure if their business brings them to the ME, but if so then EK or QR might be worth it, although I shudder to think of sitting in EKs 10 across 777s. I know I've used ME carriers sometimes because I can stopover and do meetings in Dubai or Abu Dhabi and then on to the US, usually for no additional charge. Convenient.
For what it's worth, I am a DM based in London. I have plenty of choices as to who to fly. All my travel is done for leisure and in the past I have paid a premium to fly with Cathay Pacific even though I can get direct flights or better scheduling with another airline. I fly exclusively using V or E class fares. Last year I clocked around 82k miles with CX (with the other 38k on partner airlines) and this year I'll be clocking 117k with CX.
At this stage I will likely move to AA, and since CX economy doesn't really earn anything with AA unless in Y, B or H, I will probably shift all of my travel to AA (to America and South America), AY (for Europe and Asia) and BA (for Europe).
It's a shame for me, because CX had a loyal customer in me and I've exclusively flown with CX/KA and have planned my holidays around the routes they fly. Although I haven't been a MPC member for long (only 7 years or so), I've clocked up over 500k miles and they would have had me for the rest of my working career (another 30+ years). I don't really want to jump ship but I feel like I am being pushed out.
For those of you that think the MPC changes are better than the QF frequent flyer rules, I have to disagree.
The QF status credit table (for QF flights) are here: https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn...-earning-table
Even the cheapest QF seats will earn status credits and not just token status credits. Discount economy SYD-HKG on QF will earn 30 SCs; under CX, assuming ticket classes S, N, Q, SYD-HKG on CX will earn you 10.
I recognise that CX is trying to value premium class passengers more than non-premium class passengers and I think that's fair. But the changes make me think that CX does not value non-premium class passengers at all.
As an aside, there is one thing I don't quite understand - if the earn and burn rates remain the same (ie: there is no status bonus like under the QF, BA or AA programmes), and if the changes are designed to benefit premium class passengers (who by definition already fly J or F), what additional benefit does a passenger who will just make it to MPC Gold have? I know the benefit for CX is they have revenue, but for the customer, they already fly J or F so they would already have their separate check-in counters, priority boarding, lounge access, priority baggage and arrivals lounge access. Am I right in thinking that these passengers will only benefit if they fly Y (which doesn't really get them that much credit in CX's books)? Or maybe the extra 15kg of luggage allowance? Beyond that, I struggle to see any other benefits...
Oct 1, 2015, 9:58 am
#225
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: MPC,CA,MU,AF
Posts: 8,171
i too am looking forward to hearing their thoughts as i am really looking into AA. what sucks is that in order for me to fly to hkg i have to fly east to dfw and then west to hkg or i could fly on cx metal and just pay for higher fare classes to earn mileage. i'm no DM but shouldn't have an issue reaching AA's platinum level (OWS) given my current flying patterns. plus i love how AA occasionally has EXP challenges
I am also thinking AA. When I was with my old company, I got my road warrior status and flew J. Occasionally I flew PEY because of budget. I am still flying PEY myself. I only need 5 SFO-HKG RTs on E plus 4 AA flights to get to EXP, which I should achieve easily.
There may be requirement on AA's EXP challenge. I thought the member has to be AA Plat to start with, but I may be wrong.
In any event, I just renewed my DM today. I have some time to think about whether to stick with CX.